Baseball Musings
Baseball Musings
February 21, 2008
Michael on Jeter

Via MLB FanHouse, Derek Jeter and Gene Michael talk about the shortstop's poor range:

"Maybe it was a computer glitch," the three-time Gold Glove winner said of the report. But Jeter just didn't laugh this one off. He defended himself, saying, "Every [shortstop] doesn't stay in the same spot, everyone doesn't have the same pitching. Everyone doesn't have the same hitters running, it's impossible to do that."

Jeter, 33, pointed out you can get the exact same ground ball off the exact same pitcher and there could be an average runner or there could be Ichiro running. "How can you compute that?" he asked.

You can't. That's one reason Yankees senior advisor Gene Michael was infuriated by the University of Pennsylvania report.

"Something like that is a disgrace," the scout said. "It made me ill when I read that article. First of all, what pitching staff was out there? Each team has a different staff. Derek doesn't really have a sinkerball pitching staff whereas other shortstops, you sit behind certain pitchers, you're going to get a lot of ground balls.

"You simply can't do that by those charts, that's a bunch of baloney," Michael added. "It's disgraceful. You have to use a scout's eye to determine range."

Of course, we do take most of those factors into account. For every Ichiro running to first, there's a Jason Giambi. Over time, those factors even out. As for the pitching staff, the Yankees have undergone numerous changes over the last few years, and somehow Derek stays at the bottom of the pack.

I'd also like to comment on one thing from the FanHouse post (emphasis added):

Baseball's different. It's very easy to watch Jeter fly deep in the hole, plant, pivot and gun a runner and come to the conclusion that he's a great fielder. It's a pretty play, full of athleticism and grace and that's more memorable than a grounder that finds a hole or a double play that doesn't get turned. That doesn't make it more important, though. These kinds of analysis help us understand baseball in its fullest context. That context, however, doesn't matter much when Jeter cuts off a poor throw, flips it to the plate and saves a run.
Jeter Jump Throw

04 September 2006: New York Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter makes a throw to 1st base but is unable to get Kansas City Royals center fielder Joey Gathright out in the 5th inning at Kauffman Stadium in Kansas City, MO.
Photo: Icon SMI

If Jeter actually planted and pivoted in the hole, I think his numbers would be better. What he actually does is stop, jump and throw, using only his arm to get the ball to first. His movement is more like a skater transferring kinetic energy from the horizontal to the vertical with a toe pick. None of that energy is being used to hurl the ball toward first base. I cringe every time he tries to make that play, because no matter how good it looks, it's the wrong way to throw. If he stopped, planted and used his whole body to send the ball across the diamond, he'd make a stronger and more accurate throw. How many times does that toss pull the first baseman off the bag or sail over his head? David Eckstein can make the plant and throw play, why can't the bigger and stronger Jeter?

Update: Tango's take.

Update: 100% Injury Rate chimes in. He points to some old data that shows Jeter wasn't the best fielding shortstop on his team, with the same pitching staff. The same things shows up in 2007 PMR. As a team, the Yankees shortstops produced 38 fewer outs than expected. Jeter, however, produced forty fewer outs than expected! So the replacements were a bit better.


Posted by David Pinto at 11:37 AM | Defense | TrackBack (0)
Comments

The lady doth protest too much.

Posted by: geb4000 at February 21, 2008 12:13 PM

Pretty soon the Captain will be paraphrasing Joe Morgan. "I've never seen a computer field a grounder."

Posted by: thatteamfromcle at February 21, 2008 01:22 PM

Goes to show once again that the gold glove is often a popularity contest.

Posted by: emains at February 21, 2008 02:13 PM

The funny thing about all this is that it doesn't really take away from Jeter's greatness as a player. He is going to go down as one of the greatest hitting SS's in history -- who cares that he's a relatively poor fielder?

Posted by: Tom at February 21, 2008 04:00 PM

Exactly, Tom. Bashing Jeter for his poor fielding doesn't alter the fact that he's a virtual lock for first-ballot Hall-of-Fame entry (and a deserving one, at that!).

Mostly, the debate about his fielding is a debate about observation - everyone remembers Jeter for that play against the Athletics, the jump throws on Sportscenter, the headlong dives into hostile stands for a popup ... and those should be counted, but they're only part of the debate. We should also count all the balls that go past him without a play.

One thing I've never really understood - why doesn't Jeter get more flack for letting the 2001 Series-losing bloop by Luis Gonzalez go by without a play? Admittedly, only a great jump by a tremendous shortstop would get that ball, but if Jeter's supposed to be that guy, why didn't he at least go after it?

Anyway, I think this particular argument has necrotic equine all over it at this point.

Posted by: Subrata Sircar at February 21, 2008 05:30 PM

Plant-and-throw doesn't sell Gatorade or Nikes.

Posted by: Toku at February 21, 2008 07:03 PM

Jeter is a borderline hall of famer.

Posted by: Colin at February 21, 2008 07:37 PM

Some observations. First of all, the Yankee infield was playing in when Gonzalez hit his blooper. Jeter had no shot.

Secondly, to suggest that Jeter is a borderline HOF is absolutely asinine. One of the dumbest things I've ever read. For starters, his career batting average right now is .317. He hasn't turned 34 yet, yet has 2356 hits. His last four seasons have seen an AVERAGE of 202 hits per year. Even taking age into consideration, averaging 180 hits a year over the next four years would give him 720 hits. 720 + 2356 equal 3076 hits. Borderline HOF? Name me other shortstops other than Honus Wagner with 3000 hits in their careers.

He has had 6 Top 10 finishes in MVP voting, finishing 3rd in 1998 and runnerup in 2006. He's been a World Series MVP, a Rookie of the Year, and an All-Star MVP. He has 4 World Series rings and a .309 batting average in postseason play.

Please don't insult our intelligences anymore, Colin.

Posted by: Mike S. at February 21, 2008 09:25 PM

No way he's borderline. Sure-fire, 1st ballot, and still with a chance to pass 4000 hits. I cannot stand him (Mets fan), but I have to admit he's a helluva SS (hitting-wise).

Posted by: JC at February 21, 2008 09:27 PM

Cal Ripken, Jr.

I won't accept Robin Yount, because he was moved to CF.

Posted by: Mike S. at February 21, 2008 09:45 PM

If you discount Yount because he was moved to CF, shouldn't you discount Jeter, who should have been moved to CF when Rodriguez was acquired? ;)

Posted by: NBarnes at February 22, 2008 07:25 PM
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