"He is a great and loyal Yankee."
Entirely debatable re loyalty. If Pinto's suggestion of a move to CF had taken place he'd have been a seething, vengeful mess. Given the Bronx institution he has become, the suggestion of such a logical move was unthinkable. He'll never leave, but that is a business decision.

I always thought Jeter would make a great CF. He's quick, has a good arm, and goes back on the ball really well. And if you're looking at your legacy, you'd be hard pressed to find a better collection of players to stand with than the guys who've played CF throughout Yankee history.

Even 4000 hits are not out of the realm of possibility for him now.

Jeter is--as Joe DiMaggio was before him--living proof that there's nothing inconsistent with being both a great player *and* highly overrated. Jeter is clearly at best the third or fourth best shortstop of this era (behind ARod, Nomar, and possibly--if one has an eye for defense--Vizquel), but the core of his mystique is as the perceived center of those great Yankee teams at the end of the 20th century. His overall postseason numbers are basically the same as his regular season ones-it's not as if he was Billy Martin, whose postseason numbers were leaps and bounds above his regular season marks. Jeter will go into the Hall on the first ballot and probably deserves to--but in this era of great shortstops he is well behind the leader of the pack.

Are you joking? I hate the Yankees more than I like all the other teams put together, and there is just no way you can justify saying that Jeter - for his career - is worse than Nomar or Vizquel. That is insane. You are insane.

Matt Davis is dead on.

Anyhow . . . Jeter can't play 3rd. Reflexes are too slow. That's his main problem as a fielder. By the time he moves, balls that other fielders could get are by him. I think he'd be even worse at 3rd than at ss. Cf or 1st.

M. Scott Eiland is dead on. If he played anywhere else he would be just another so so shortstop. He definitely is at the back of the pack mentioned above.

Oh, what a surprise, emains jumps on the bash-the-yankee bandwagon.

It's simply idiotic to put Nomar in the same class as Jeter. It's not close. It's not close to being close.

During both men's best years, sure, it was fun to argue about who was better. But even the most mindless members of RSN ought now to admit it: Nomar's career isn't in the same class as Jeter's.

Of course, A-Rod is a very much better player. Duh.

You might have not have noticed, but the last 4 seasons only one of those three was still playing shortstop. And please don't mention Vizquel in the same breath as these guys.

Um...Joe DiMaggio had a career 155 OPS+, which is tied with Hank Aaron and a point behind Willie Mays. He missed three years of his prime and played in possibly the worst park for a RH power hitter yet finished with 361 HR. Most amazingly, he only struck out 369 times in his entire career. (Career high for K's in a season was 39- his rookie year. 39!!!)

That's when I realized M. Scott Eiland has no idea what he's talking about.

Yeah but Skank bashing is soooo much fun! Lately it is not as much fun because the Skanks are making it too easy. Now with George's sons taking over...this should be a real riot. Almost like shooting fish in a barrel.

"Um...Joe DiMaggio had a career 155 OPS+, which is tied with Hank Aaron and a point behind Willie Mays. He missed three years of his prime and played in possibly the worst park for a RH power hitter yet finished with 361 HR. Most amazingly, he only struck out 369 times in his entire career. (Career high for K's in a season was 39- his rookie year. 39!!!)"

All true. Joe was a great, great player. Mays and Mantle were better--and there are a few other players who have a decent argument to that effect. That "Greatest Living Player" introduction he insisted on when showing up at Old Timers games was--to put it bluntly--BS.

Boy, you can really tell when someone's dared to affront a sacred cow.

"Are you joking? I hate the Yankees more than I like all the other teams put together, and there is just no way you can justify saying that Jeter - for his career - is worse than Nomar or Vizquel. That is insane. You are insane."

Even after bad years two out of the last three seasons, Nomar has Jeter beat 125 to 122 in career adjusted OPS+. Nomar's top three seasons in adjusted OPS+: 155, 153, 140. Jeter's top three: 153, 132, 128. A few extra stolen bases ain't enough to make up for that, and if you claim a defensive edge for Jeter I'll laugh in your face. Nomar's injuries guarantee that Jeter will put up far better career counting numbers--but there's no question who was better when they were both in their primes.

As for Vizquel, I'd rather have Jeter's whole career over Vizquel's, but some prefer their shortstops to be at least average fielders--which automatically disqualifies Jeter. Of the four I named, Vizquel was by far the best fielder and Jeter by far the worst--and the writers who voted him Gold Gloves should have their ballots stripped, just as if they had voted Mike Piazza a Gold Glove.

"It's simply idiotic to put Nomar in the same class as Jeter. It's not close. It's not close to being close.

During both men's best years, sure, it was fun to argue about who was better. But even the most mindless members of RSN ought now to admit it: Nomar's career isn't in the same class as Jeter's."

For total career value, yeah. For when they were going head to head in the late 1990's? Nomar was better.

"You might have not have noticed, but the last 4 seasons only one of those three was still playing shortstop. And please don't mention Vizquel in the same breath as these guys."

Yeah, because several million Yankee fans would have had hissy fits if their beloved Jeter had been forced to give up his position for a better hitter *and* fielder at that position. Nomar had injury problems that have shortened his career-it happens. Vizquel is the best fielding shortstop since Ozzie Smith retired--Jeter is and always has been a below average fielder at shortstop, the occasionally deranged voting in the Gold Glove awards aside. Deal with it.

Nomar?
Vizquel? Please!!! Surely, you must be disgruntled Mets fans! I won't even waste my time with this one.

Nomar?
Vizquel? Please!!! Surely, you must be disgruntled Mets fans! I won't even waste my time with this one.

Nomar?
Vizquel? Please!!! Surely, you must be disgruntled Mets fans! I won't even waste my time with this one.

How did Nomar do in the postseason, I can't remember?

Patty Neg, perhaps you should focus your time on learning how to post comments properly.

"How did Nomar do in the postseason, I can't remember?"

OPS of .978 in 119 postseason PA, actually-substantially better than Jeter on a per PA basis. Why do you ask? :-)

All I know is that anyone, specifically M. Scott Eiland, who has spent so much time researching stats to debunk the great Jeter only means two things in my book:
1. Very, very, very tiny lightswitch in his pants.
2. Married the first chick that looked at him.

Have fun researching Da Dead Ball Era, M. Scott Eiland, because I'm sure anyone who has ever been in the sack with you knows just what a "Dead Ball" means now.

Nomar, Pah-F'ing-Lease!

Actually "Paris," it took all of five minutes to look that up. Of course, as you measure time that's the equivalent of several "boyfriends," so I can understand your confusion.

Vizquel is the best fielding shortstop since Ozzie Smith retired

Adam Everett laughs at this statement. Vizquel is an excellent glove man; Everett is the greatest defensive shortstop (perhaps the greatest all-around defensive player) of his generation, hands-down.

I'm always a bit concerned with those who do the first initial/middle name thing anyway, but M. Scott Eiland's Nomar/Vizquel being better than Jeter reminds me of this line from Billy Madison:

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

I think Jeter should have switched to center, too, but I'm mostly posting my props to The Zoner for that outstanding use of a quote from Billy Madison.

Shakespeare himself couldn't have said it any better. Well, if he had written the script to Adam Sandler movies, anyway.