Baseball Musings: Yankees Defense

April 03, 2006

Yankees Defense

Via Seymour Ruskin, Phil Allard of NYYFans is writing a column on the Yankees for WCBS Radio in New York this year. Congratulations Phil! However, in an otherwise good column about the Yankees defense, Phil succumbs to Jeter myopia:

As much as I believe in most forms of objective sabermetric philosophy, such as the all important OBP and the shunning of “productive outs,” I have to disagree here. Yes, Jeter does not have great range, but he adds dimensions of worth to his team that defies quantitative analysis, and there ain’t no stat geek that can tell me otherwise. I can’t let statistical “objectivity” act as a blinding agent to what my eyes can clearly see. (That sound you hear is members of the saber community firing up their keyboards to take pithy shots at me.)
You remember that catch Jeter made against the Red Sox on that glorious first night of July in 2004, when he risked his body by crashing in the stands to save the game? That doesn’t count in sabermetric measurement because it was a foul ball. Remember “The Play” against Oakland in the 2001 playoffs that saved the series for the Yanks when Jeter intuitively ran to a spot where he had no business being and then made the perfect cut-off throw home? Aside from the assist, there is no quantitative measurement of such a play, nor are there useful measurements for his amazing skills as a cut-off man.

Jeter’s value is truly intangible, and he inspires teammates with his leadership. He belongs at shortstop on my team, but let the arguments rage on. The debates are fun.

If his value is intangible, then it doesn't exist. The most important thing a shortstop does is field ground balls. Jeter does that poorly. You know, when you can't find anything good to say about a catcher, you throw out that he's a great handler of pitchers. When you can't say anything good about Jeter's defense, you point to all the things that aren't measured well, as if being a great cutoff man or making a couple of great foul catches is going to make up for all the balls going through for hits.

Jeter is the Yankees shortstop because he ranks high among shortstops when you combine offense and defense. In other words, his offense is making up for his defensive shortcomings. At some point, that may not be true. But even then, the Yankees can't move him from the position. Like Gehrig before him, no one will be able to tell him he can't play. Jeter defines the Yankees of this era. His offense, his leadership, his desire to win makes him the icon of this team. When Jeter leaves shortstop, it will be his idea alone.

Posted by David Pinto at 09:51 AM | Defense | TrackBack (0)

Comments

well, Phil suggests that no one is able to discuss Jeter rationally...He's either the best or the worse...that seems to be the take...

Otherwise the points on Giambi and Sheffield are spot on...

One question...why is Cano so spacey?

Posted by: Greg R. at April 3, 2006 10:16 AM

It boils down to this: Derek Jeter helps the Yankees a whole lot more he hurts them by playing short everyday.

I'll take him over a defensive whiz like Yuniesky Betancourt any day of the week.

Posted by: Mike A. at April 3, 2006 11:24 AM

1. Jeter does, in fact, deserve extra credit for skills that aren't well-measured. He really is excellent at taking throws from the outfield and relaying them, strongly and accurately, to the right base.

2. He's still sub-par at his core defensive job.

So, giving a C- student extra credit might get him to a C instead of an A... but it still counts.

Posted by: Scott at April 3, 2006 11:27 AM

Is he still sub-par? I thought his defensive metrics have improved the past couple of seasons.

Posted by: JC at April 3, 2006 11:35 AM

The better argument for those inclined to defend/promote Jeter is that "defensive metrics" are sorely lacking in accuracy; instead of saying "Jeter's intangibles are unmeasureable", I'd say his defensive abilities have not been accurate measured by current metrics.

Posted by: adwred at April 3, 2006 11:42 AM

I think you'll find that his defensive metrics improved once Alex Rodriguez started playing 3B. With fantastic range to his right, he allows Jeter to cheat up the middle a little more - Jeter's range to his left is appalling, and Rodriguez helps him compensate.

Posted by: Scott at April 3, 2006 12:20 PM

To Rodriguez's left, that should have said.

Posted by: Scott at April 3, 2006 12:20 PM

"Johnny Damon is a defensive improvement in center over Bernie Williams. Stephen Hawking would be a defensive improvement in center over Bernie too, so don’t get too excited."

Heh heh. Okay, I won't get too excited. But, boy am I gonna be ticked if Damon's shoulder problem forces him to play DH for any extended period of time.

Posted by: Eye Doc at April 3, 2006 12:43 PM

All those great "intangibles" would still be useful to the Yankees if he were one spot over to the left of the infield. Then they would be able to put their gold glove short stop to work where he belongs, and where he would be on any other team. I appreciate the comarison to Gehrig, but Lou didn't have anybody on the team better than him at his postion and Jeter does. Moot point at this time as I absolutely agree when you say that "When Jeter leaves shortstop, it will be his idea alone."

Posted by: Thom at April 3, 2006 12:56 PM

Scott said:

"I think you'll find that his defensive metrics improved once Alex Rodriguez started playing 3B. With fantastic range to his left, he allows Jeter to cheat up the middle a little more - Jeter's range to his left is appalling, and Rodriguez helps him compensate."

Actually, they didn't, with the exception of 2004.

Yankee 3Bs have played off the line, and Jeter has cheated up the middle, since at least 1999, which is the first season for which I have complete data. Contrary to popular opinion, the Yankees w/ Jeter have been below-average on balls toward the SS hole in every year for which I have data; until last year they were close to average on balls going up the middle.

Posted by: Mike Emeigh at April 3, 2006 01:01 PM

Thom said:

"All those great "intangibles" would still be useful to the Yankees if he were one spot over to the left of the infield. Then they would be able to put their gold glove short stop to work where he belongs, and where he would be on any other team."

The question is whether the Yankees' "team defense" would work better with Jeter at 3B and ARod at SS. I don't think it would.

The two things a 3B needs are (a) quick reaction when the ball is put into play and (b) a quick first step. Jeter has neither, and while he can compensate for those weaknesses to some extent at SS (especially with a good glove next to him at 3B), he can't at 3B. ARod's skills are more adaptable to 3B.

A better solution, if Jeter were going to move all, would be to move him to CF.

Posted by: Mike Emeigh at April 3, 2006 01:12 PM

Well whaddaya know, thanks for the correction, Mike. The eyes do deceive.

If Jeter were to move to another infield spot, I'd like to see him at 2B, so that he can still take most of the throws from the outfield.

Posted by: Scott at April 3, 2006 01:18 PM

Because, you know, he's of great value as a cut-off man.

Posted by: John in Austin at April 3, 2006 01:37 PM

Just as a Red Sox fan, I'll admit that while it's not nearly as in the media as the Jeter hype, Jason Varitek is starting to get the same "intangibles" treatment. I love him to death, but he gets far too much credit.

Posted by: Hunter at April 3, 2006 02:36 PM

People seem to be forgetting about Robin Ventura and Scott Brosius. Those are excellent fielding 3B. Jeter's been blessed with talent at 3B.

I can't say the 3B have been so blessed, though.

Derek Jeter's best comps:
http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/sim2005_116539.html
are Juan Encarnacion and Jose Guillen. Both RF, with some CF and LF play.

After that, it's Reed Johnson (LF/RF, with some CF), Wilson Betemit (3B, some SS), Mark Teahen (3b).

Afterwards we see more middle-infielders. I think Jeter's ideal positions in order are:
RF, 3B, CF, 2B, LF, SS, 1B

Posted by: tangotiger at April 3, 2006 04:22 PM

Just a quick correction: The ball Jeter caught in 2004 before he went crashing into the stands was fair, not foul. It would have been a run-scoring double, at least. NESN replayed the game last week, and Jeter was one or two feet in fair territory when he caught it.

Posted by: Bud at April 4, 2006 07:26 AM

It's where the ball is, not the feet. Where was the ball?

Posted by: tangotiger at April 4, 2006 03:26 PM