Baseball Musings
Baseball Musings
March 02, 2008
Praise for The Man

Steve Caimano wonders why Stan Musial isn't included in discussions of the greatest living ballplayer:

Stan Musial may be the most underrated Hall of Famer and deserves to be considered "The Greatest Living Ballplayer". This statement may seem odd to you because the conversation around the unofficial title of TGLB, ever since the passing of Ted Williams, has centered on two men: Willie Mays and Hank Aaron. While there can be no question that the "Say Hey Kid" and "Hammerin' Hank" are two of the greatest to play the game, "The Man" is at least their equal. Somehow this fact seems to have escaped the notice of the public at large. Let's try and change that, shall we.

In my mind, there are some things working against Stan. He was more a double hitter than a home run hitter, and fans (with rare exceptions like me) don't care that much about doubles. He also played three seasons in a major leagues depleted of talent by WWII. Stan only missed 1945 due to the war, and none of his peak playing time. Frankly, the stats he posted in 1943 and 1944 are suspect due to the lack of competition. Across town, the Browns were playing a one-armed centerfielder, while the Cardinals went with one of the great hitters of all time? Something wasn't kosher there.

On top of that, Stan didn't set any all-time records. If he had passed Speaker for the doubles record, or Ruth for the runs or RBI records, he'd be at the top of the discussion. No doubt Musial was one of the greatest hitters who ever lived, but he fell just behind the Ruth/Williams/Mays/Aaron lead. Besides, at this point, Bonds is the greatest hitter who ever lived, with or without steroids.

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Posted by David Pinto at 10:01 AM | All-Time Greats | TrackBack (0)
Comments

Musial was a fantastic player--one could even argue that he was a better all-around player than Ted Williams, as Bill James did in the first edition of the Historical Baseball Abstract, and you could certainly make a reasonable case for him being as good or better than Aaron, though personally I'd give The Hammer the nod on that comparison. However, there's no way I'd consider putting a left fielder/first baseman of average defensive skill ahead of a superb centerfielder of comparable offensive accomplishments who was also a superior baserunner. The Man deserves more respect, but The Say-Hey Kid is the greatest living baseball player (as he was when Joe-D was still alive).

Posted by: M. Scott Eiland at March 2, 2008 02:12 PM

Scott nailed it. Stan was a fantastic player. However, it is no insult to say he isn't the greatest living player. He is just behind the top three or four and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Stan wouldn't even think of bringing himself into this discussion.

Posted by: largebill at March 2, 2008 11:51 PM

2 problems totally unrelated to performance - after 1946 the Cards never won again during his career and he played largely before the TV era.

Posted by: Bandit at March 3, 2008 11:59 AM

re: stan musial - setting the record straight

according baseball-reference.com, stan musial was 1st or second in the nl in on base percentage ten times.

he was a 23 time all star.

he won three MVPs and probably could have won several more.

for a doubles hitter, he packed a heck of a wallop, as he led the NL in slugging SIX different years, and was second three more years. He was 4th in slugging three other years. So twelve of the years he was in the league, he was in the top four in slugging.

ok, so you have a guy who ten years of his career is 1st or second in OBA and top 4 in Slugging Average.

Gee, sounds like Moneyball would grab a guy like that from the draft board. Sounds like a guy like that would create runs by the barrelful and be very productive to his team.

Here's the line on Stan's MVP season of 1948, when he hit .376 with 39 homers, 230 hits, 46 doubles, 18 triples, OBA of .450 and 439 total bases;

1948 27 STL NL 155 611 135 230 46 18 39 131 7 79 34 .376 .450 .702 200 429 1 3 18 MVP-1,AS

incidentally, this "doubles" guy hit 475 homers in his career, with a .331 lifetime batting average and a .417 on base average and .559 lifetime slugging average. 725 lifetime doubles, too.

Stan Musial isn't just the great living player--there's a good argument that Stan Musial is the greatest player ever.

--art kyriazis, philly

Posted by: art kyriazis at March 4, 2008 10:10 AM
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