Baseball Musings
Baseball Musings
February 28, 2008
Never Hyped

Matt Bouffard weighs in on whether Roy White was really a better leftfielder than Jim Rice. Growing up in Bridgeport, CT during Roy White's prime, I got to watch him a lot. Roy was never hyped as a player. Bobby Murcer, the centerfield from Oklahoma got that, or Thurman Munson. Even the awful Horace Clarke and Gene Michael got more press, it seemed. Roy was more like Dwight Evans, an excellent ballplayer whose skill of getting on base wasn't something that excited writers.


Posted by David Pinto at 08:12 AM | All-Time Greats | TrackBack (0)
Comments

Roy had NO arm.

He was a good, solid player who, because of the weak Yankees lineups in the late 60s/early 70s had to hit cleanup.

He actually started out at 3B before being switched to LF.

But a very quiet man of great dignity. He was one guy I was happy for come 1976-1978. After spending so many years with the post-dynasty bad Yankee teams, it was nice to see him on winning teams at the end.

Posted by: Mike S. at February 28, 2008 01:21 PM

re: roy white v. jim rice

you be the judge. here's baseball-reference.com's special states on roy white;

Special Batting Glossary

Year Ag Tm Lg PA Outs RC RC/G AIR BA *lgBA OBP *lgOBP SLG *lgSLG OPS *lgOPS*OPS+ OWP *BtRns BtWin SB%
+--------------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+
1965 21 NYY AL 47 29 7 6.5 91| .333 .250| .404 .319| .381 .382| .785 .702| 126 .706 1.7 0.2 66%
1966 22 NYY AL 356 258 35 3.7 86| .225 .242| .308 .308| .345 .374| .653 .683| 92 .470 -2.7 -0.3 66%
1967 23 NYY AL 238 175 20 3.1 80| .224 .238| .287 .306| .290 .356| .577 .662| 75 .414 -6.0 -0.7 71%
1968 24 NYY AL 660 451 86 5.1 77| .267 .234| .350 .302| .414 .346| .764 .648| 136 .667 25.6 2.9 64%
1969 25 NYY AL 543 350 81 6.2 91| .290 .250| .392 .326| .426 .377| .818 .702| 134 .672 25.7 2.6 64%
1970 26 NYY AL 712 460 116 6.8 93| .296 .252| .387 .325| .473 .385| .860 .710| 142 .697 37.8 3.8 70%
1971 27 NYY AL 634 405 103 6.8 87| .292 .248| .388 .319| .469 .368| .857 .687| 149 .725 38.8 4.0 66%
1972 28 NYY AL 666 430 88 5.5 81| .270 .243| .384 .311| .376 .351| .760 .662| 130 .681 26.9 3.0 76%
1973 29 NYY AL 723 509 80 4.2 91| .246 .256| .329 .324| .374 .376| .703 .701| 101 .487 1.2 0.1 64%
1974 30 NYY AL 555 367 73 5.4 88| .275 .257| .367 .321| .393 .370| .760 .691| 121 .616 14.7 1.5 71%
1975 31 NYY AL 636 421 91 5.8 92| .290 .257| .372 .326| .430 .377| .802 .704| 128 .633 22.1 2.2 51%
1976 32 NYY AL 728 492 98 5.4 86| .286 .256| .365 .320| .409 .361| .774 .681| 127 .634 24.4 2.6 70%
1977 33 NYY AL 606 414 77 5.0 99| .268 .265| .358 .329| .405 .403| .763 .732| 109 .533 9.0 0.9 62%
1978 34 NYY AL 395 271 48 4.7 91| .269 .258| .349 .322| .393 .379| .742 .702| 112 .542 6.2 0.6 71%
1979 35 NYY AL 236 177 17 2.6 100| .215 .267| .290 .332| .288 .405| .578 .736| 59 .247 -11.5 -1.1 50%
+--------------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+
15 Seasons 7735 5209 1020 5.3 89| .271 .252| .360 .320| .404 .372| .764 .692| 121 .612 213.9 22.3 66%

* indicates the value is park adjusted (now all 3-year factors)

now here's the same stats for jim rice:

Special Batting Glossary

Year Ag Tm Lg PA Outs RC RC/G AIR BA *lgBA OBP *lgOBP SLG *lgSLG OPS *lgOPS*OPS+ OWP *BtRns BtWin SB%
+--------------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+
1974 21 BOS AL 75 54 8 4.0 95| .269 .267| .307 .333| .373 .384| .680 .717| 89 .483 -0.9 -0.1 0%
1975 22 BOS AL 613 423 92 5.8 101| .309 .269| .350 .341| .491 .395| .841 .736| 127 .636 18.8 1.9 66%
1976 23 BOS AL 624 451 83 5.0 96| .282 .270| .315 .336| .482 .381| .797 .717| 120 .600 11.8 1.2 61%
1977 24 BOS AL 710 468 136 7.8 110| .320 .281| .376 .347| .593 .427| .969 .774| 147 .721 40.8 3.9 55%
1978 25 BOS AL 746 490 147 8.0 103| .315 .274| .370 .341| .600 .404| .970 .746| 157 .756 48.4 4.8 58%
1979 26 BOS AL 688 446 138 8.2 107| .325 .277| .381 .342| .596 .419| .977 .761| 154 .736 46.1 4.4 69%
1980 27 BOS AL 542 379 81 5.8 104| .294 .276| .336 .339| .504 .409| .840 .749| 122 .601 12.8 1.3 72%
1981 28 BOS AL 495 346 64 5.0 94| .284 .264| .333 .330| .441 .384| .774 .714| 116 .588 8.7 0.9 50%
1982 29 BOS AL 638 429 98 6.1 104| .309 .272| .375 .337| .494 .414| .869 .751| 130 .630 23.9 2.3 0%
1983 30 BOS AL 689 473 113 6.4 104| .305 .274| .361 .336| .550 .413| .911 .749| 141 .651 33.9 3.3 0%
1984 31 BOS AL 708 515 88 4.6 101| .280 .269| .323 .333| .467 .406| .790 .739| 112 .506 8.0 0.8 100%
1985 32 BOS AL 608 431 83 5.2 102| .291 .266| .349 .332| .487 .413| .836 .745| 123 .552 16.9 1.7 100%
1986 33 BOS AL 693 447 115 6.9 101| .324 .263| .384 .331| .490 .410| .874 .741| 136 .670 32.9 3.2 0%
1987 34 BOS AL 459 318 55 4.6 108| .277 .268| .357 .337| .408 .431| .765 .768| 101 .466 1.1 0.1 50%
1988 35 BOS AL 542 382 63 4.4 99| .264 .265| .330 .331| .406 .399| .736 .730| 102 .500 0.7 0.1 50%
1989 36 BOS AL 228 169 20 3.2 99| .234 .269| .276 .335| .344 .395| .620 .730| 70 .360 -9.0 -0.9 100%
+--------------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+
16 Seasons 9058 6221 1384 6.0 102| .298 .271| .352 .337| .502 .407| .854 .744| 128 .627 294.7 28.9 63%

* indicates the value is park adjusted (now all 3-year factors)

I think when you read these, what jumps out at you is that Jim Rice has more PEAK seasons where his adjusted OPS is more than 200 points above league adjusted OPS. He has three or more of these.

Roy White, while a steady players, just doesn't have teh peak seasons.

Thus, this is a little like comparing Milt Pappas to Don Drysdale, to borrow from Bill James famous Hall of Fame book. While the career stats look similar at the end when you adjust for park effects etc., the fact is that Drysdale had more big seasons and more big win seasons.

It's the same here--Rice had more big seasons and more big win, e.g. runs created, seasons than Roy White--season where he really put up big numbers.

Consequently, i think the edge actually goes to Rice, after adjusting for everything.

--art kyriazis, philly

Posted by: art kyriazis at March 4, 2008 11:17 AM
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