Baseball Musings: Bad Consensus

October 19, 2007

Bad Consensus

Selena Roberts sees weakness in the new Yankees ownership arrangement over the handling of Joe Torre:

Where there were once snap decisions by George, there is now indecision by Yankee consensus.
To be sure, Hal and Hank Steinbrenner aren't ready to slip into their father's blue blazer, to sit in the general's saddle, to inherit the light saber from Darth Vader.

Are they too soft or too green? Whatever the case, Hank and Hal have blown their transition move from the kiddie table. Ten days after the Yankees' season ended, holed up in Tampa with IHOP leftovers and Randy Levine this week, stepping lightly around their aging patriarch, Hank and Hal helped devise this ham-handed strategy: Let's discount Joe Torre's dignity.

I wouldn't be quite so harsh. My guess is the deal wasn't a consensus but a compromise. My two thoughts on Torre at this point were:

Anybody competent applicant can manage the Yankees to a first round exit for a lot less money than they're paying Torre.
Torre is uniquely qualified to manage the Yankees.

Since there is a lot of truth to both these statements, the Yankees came up with an offer the reflects that. If Torre says no, the Yankees were ready to move on anyway. If he says yes, it's a win for them. I hope they hire Davey Johnson.

Posted by David Pinto at 08:51 AM | Management | TrackBack (0)

Comments

Well said, I have been bewildered by the "offer is insulting" crowd. Joe is good, talented enough to justify the highest salary in the game. He was offered that. I can only assume the cut is unreasonable crowd are all teamsters, or career DMVers. Can anyone else concluded the highest base in the game, with incentives to reach the highest value ever, is insulting?

Posted by: abe at October 19, 2007 09:28 AM

Small word usage mistake, 'too' should be 'two.'

Posted by: Dave at October 19, 2007 09:45 AM

No matter what you make, when your boss offers you a 30% pay cut, it is an insult. Wouldn't you feel the same way? And if you were as successful at your job as Joe has been at his, you would tell your boss to shove it, too.

I could only imagine if Joe had signed. Fast forward to October 2008 -- the Yanks are down to the Tigers 2 games to 1 in the ALDS and there is a media frenzy about Joe's "million dollar game". Thank you Joe, if for nothing else, sparing us that scenario.

Posted by: CTV at October 19, 2007 10:18 AM

They let the wrong guy go. The Steinbrenners should be fired. That's the only way the Yanks will win again.

Posted by: Ira at October 19, 2007 10:32 AM

In general, I'd agree with the notion that any competent manager could get the Yankees into the playoffs. This year, not so much. They had a patchwork pitching staff, a whole lotta injuries, and a big mountain to climb after their rough start. Torre has to get some credit for keeping the team together and making effective use of young talent (which hasn't been his strong suit in the past).

To me, the most insulting part of the contract offer wasn't the money, it was the length. I don't know of a coach or manager in any major team sport who would sign a one-year contract. It's just not the way things are done.

The contract was clearly a poison-pill thing: the organization could contend that they wanted Torre back, but they offered terms they were sure Torre would reject.

They should have been clear about this. Either make a meaningful commitment to Torre, or just say "Thanks for the memories" and move on.

Posted by: jvwalt at October 19, 2007 11:26 AM

On a tangential note, whatever happened to MLB's mandate to keep organizational changes to a minimum during the playoffs? I seem to remember that MLB didn't want any front-office soap operas overshadowing the competition on the field -- which is exactly what happened yesterday with the Yankee circus: Suddenly, the Sox-Indians series was on the back burner. Bud Selig can't be happy about that.

Posted by: jvwalt at October 19, 2007 12:35 PM

re: joe torre v bobby cox

it seems to me that joe torre did nothing to justify his pay cut or his departure. he was in the middle of the same run of playoff appearances that bobby cox was in several years ago. cox won 14 division titles (we forget that the strike year in 1994 was actually the expos' division title) in 15 years and was competitive the last two years. He wasn't a bad manager in Toronto either. Torre was also the manager of choice of the vets on the yankees.

like bobby cox, Torre deserved to stay put until the yanks actually missed the playoffs or had a bad year.

sometimes, the best move is no move.

the problem with the yankees is not the manager. it's starting pitching. they don't have the horses for a short series. they need stoppers like a josh beckett or a curt schilling but they're still going with over the hill guys like roger clemens or (last year) randy johnson. they need to bring in the best starters with the best fastballs. those are the guys who win in the post season. the schilliings and the beckets and the bob gibsons all have unhittable heaters.

junkballers are not the answer in the playoffs.

this is why the phils should have had brett myers in the starting rotation. he's a fastball throwing strikeout machine. he's tailor made for playoff baseball. it's a waste to have him in the bullpen. he should be the #2 after cole hamels.

the yankees are making a mistake jettisoning torre.

don mattingly is a great baseball player, but he's never managed.

davey johnson would be a good choice but we'll see.

the best choice, jimmy leyland, already has a job in detroit. he'll be heard from next year.

--art k, philly

--art kyriazis

Posted by: art kyriazis at October 19, 2007 12:39 PM

junkballers are not the answer in the playoffs.

Tell that to Paul Byrd and the Indians.

Posted by: dave at October 19, 2007 01:52 PM

This year, not so much. They had a patchwork pitching staff, a whole lotta injuries, and a big mountain to climb after their rough start. Torre has to get some credit for keeping the team together and making effective use of young talent (which hasn't been his strong suit in the past).

No offense but the NYY have 4 mortal lock 1st ballot HOFers, 3-4 other borderline HOFers, another former MVP, at least 4 other perennial all-stars and a couple of top prospects - Joe was a sucky manager when he had bad players then he was a great manager when he had great players and now he's like an old broke down manager now that he has old broke down players - NYY should have done the right thing and sucked it up and said thanks for everything if they wanted to get rid of him. Now they look stupid and manipulative. It's silly.

Posted by: Bandit at October 19, 2007 02:29 PM

The contract offer was both reasonable and a statement that they wanted a new manger. Bringing in a new manager after 3 dissappointing postseasons is also reasonable, even if the next guy doesn't do as well. The only problem with this post is that Dave links to the poison pen of Selena Roberts who writes to draw blood and shock, not to inform.

Posted by: Phil at October 19, 2007 02:48 PM

I'm amazed at the support for Joe Torre! Because of the Yankees payroll, great things are expected out of the team. Lest we forget, Torre hasn't won a World Series in 7 seasons. That's simply not acceptable for the Yankees. If you had a player that had underachieved in managements eyes, who wasn't at the top of his game anymore, would a 30% paycut be warranted? I would think so. Of course, the main problem is the gross incompetence of Brian Cashman, but for some reason he gets a free pass.

I also think it's amusing that people think this is the end of the Yankee dynasty (although it might be if Cashman keeps running the team). They aren't going to lose any free agents and they might even trade for Johan Santana. In fact, their new manager will come into a situation much like Torre in 1996 -- a great team that could win the WS the first year.

Posted by: Tom at October 19, 2007 04:45 PM

The proposed deal was a politically correct compromise. Anyone familiar with corporate decision making, will know this is a bad sign. Selena Roberts is right. It's has nothing to do with money they set him up to turn down the deal. If they really wanted him back as Randy Levine claimed they would have been open to negotiation. They gave him a take it or leave it offer. I'm glad he left it.

Posted by: Mark at October 19, 2007 07:07 PM

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