Baseball Musings: Torre Staying?

October 18, 2007

Torre Staying?

Word is that Torre is going to stay on as manager of the Yankees. My Baseball Bias is providing updates.

Update: No! Torre turned down the extension!

The Yankees just announced that Joe Torre will not return as manager. He turned down a $5 million deal that included $3 million in incentives.

That's what happens when you speculate rather than wait for the news. I guess Torre didn't want to take a pay cut.

Update: I'll speculate on the decision myself. My guess is that Torre probably felt he didn't need incentives to manage well. He might have even taken that as a insult. On top of that, it's not really clear that Joe wanted to come back anyway. He's 67, and managing does take a toll on you.

However, this may smooth things over with the players. The Yankees didn't just decide to let him go. They made a fair offer to keep Joe around, and Torre rejected it. I'll be interested to see what the veteran free agents think of this.

Update: Michael Kay, on his radio show, speculates that if the public reacts badly to this move, the Yankees might revisit the contract.

Posted by David Pinto at 03:42 PM | Management | TrackBack (0)

Comments

Good for Torre.

Posted by: paul zummo at October 18, 2007 04:11 PM

I agree with Paul, good for Joe. Unless he comes out and says why he turned it down, we'll never know. But at least he can leave with some pride.

Posted by: jon at October 18, 2007 04:24 PM

I think it was the 1 year, with only 1 year team option that did it.

Posted by: rbj at October 18, 2007 04:29 PM

Sounds like Kay is wishing Torre would return, and is using the power of positive thinking to make it happen.

Good for Torre. With his record, he doesn't need to sit on the bench while the Yankees pick up the pieces post A-Rod, Posada and Mo.

Posted by: Joe in Philly at October 18, 2007 04:46 PM

If he has turned the offer down, he is done. He will not get an offer anywhere near that one. And even if he did it would not be with a team able to afford an All Star at every position. Take Jeter, Posada, Rivera, etc away from Torre and he is the sub .500 winning percentage manager he was before managing Steinbrenner's Wallet. Right now, his legacy is complete. If he takes another job and reverts to what he was at three previous managerial jobs then the legacy will be tarnished.

Posted by: largebill at October 18, 2007 05:00 PM

Maybe Joe is just tired of trying to live up to expectations in NY and wasn't going to take a 20% pay cut even if it left him as the highest paid manager in baseball.

The Yankees overcame a huge deficit to make the playoffs as a wild card. That was a tremendous comeback and count me among the Yankee haters so it hurts to acknowledge that.

I think Torre will manage again, for less money, somewhere else and enjoy it a lot more. Seattle would be an interesting opportunity.
bill

Posted by: Bill McKinley at October 18, 2007 05:26 PM

That's not good news for the Yankee haters. I'm not looking forward to next season if they get a competent manager. Good thing the main incompetent (Cashman) is still employed.

Posted by: Tom at October 18, 2007 06:17 PM

Torre is not a particularly good field manager. But (a) his replacement is very unlikely to be a great field manager (there are very few in MLB right now), and (b) managing a game is a very small part of the job in NYC, and (c) it makes very, very little difference to a team's overall success. So I doubt the Yankees will see any significant improvement for having replaced a mediocre game manager.

But if Posada and Rivera interpret the process as unfair to Torre, *that* could make a very big difference to the Yankees next year and beyond.

Oh, and I, too, agree with Paul's opening comment above.

Posted by: James at October 18, 2007 06:52 PM

>Right now, his legacy is complete. If he takes >another job and reverts to what he was at three >previous managerial jobs then the legacy will be >tarnished.

Not sure about that. Casey Stengel's legacy wasn't tarnished by the couple years he managed the Mets in the early 60's. I think Stengel is a good parallel to Torre in that he also wasn't successful until he became Yankees manager and wasn't successful after he left the Yankees (Warren Spahn once said he'd played for Casey both before and after he was a genius).

Torre's not the greatest manager in baseball history, but he was the right man at the right time for this Yankee team. As a Red Sox fan, I've been looking forward to this day for a while (although my happiness may be compromised by events on the field shortly...)

Posted by: rocksfan at October 18, 2007 07:07 PM

It was a slap in the face to Torre. They knew he would refuse their offer. It was a way for them to look like the good guys. Short season
baseball ( i.e. the playoffs) is not always won by the best team. Giving him a bonus to win a short series just shows the stupidity of the Yankee management.

dadrsfan

Posted by: dadrsfan at October 18, 2007 07:26 PM

I'm glad someone brought up Stengel. If you read Bill James' book The Managers, you'll find Casey employed the same tactics with his other teams that he did with the Yankees. They worked with the other teams, too, but none had the talent he did with New York.

I always wondered why the journey men pitchers who came through New York in the fifties did so well there and so poorly elsewhere (I'm not talking about wins, but ERA). It was Casey who was responsible for that, as he didn't mind pitchers who walked a lot of batters provided they induced a lot of ground balls. Stengel always made sure he had a great double play combination behind these pitchers. That wasn't true when they played for other teams.

Posted by: David Pinto at October 18, 2007 07:29 PM

So players will base their contract decisions on the manager? When pigs fly. "Yeah, let me pass up $20M to play in Philly, to make some kind of petulant point about 'fairness' and 'Mr. Torre.'"

The Yankees may or may not retain Po, Mo, and A-Rod. Torre's situation will have little to nothing to do with it, either way.

Posted by: Jeff at October 18, 2007 07:31 PM

The most moronic thing is that the Yanks thought that Torre would accept incentives to get his salary back to what it should be. Since Torre does not make personnel decisions, and he has no say in whether they sign Po, Mo or A-Rod, it makes no sense to base his salary on how far they make in the playoffs. A 30% pay cut, paired with those "incentives" is an insult of the highest order. Joe, as always, retains his class and high standards. As a Yankee fan, I am embarrassed.

Posted by: CTV at October 18, 2007 09:15 PM

You know, I know as far as Mo and Jorge it'll probably be all about the money, I truly will never believe that. Something I do believe though, the Yankees weren't exactly graceful with how they handled Bernie. Now they treat Joe Torre like this. Maybe just maybe THAT'S going to make Mariano and Jorge think....am I going to get treated like that when they decide I'm done? I really think that something like that is so hurtful to a player's or manager's pride that it's really something to consider when you know you're signing your last big money contract. I feel like we may be in for a very long turbulent winter -- and I'm pretty sure -- not in a good way.

Posted by: Kat1110 at October 18, 2007 09:31 PM

The offer was more than fair. Joe did not want to manage the team any longer. Kay is as much as sap as his crybaby chick co-worker. I'd love to know what planet the good for Joe crowd lives on. Do they really define that offer as an insult? If so please explain, feel free to reference fair/efficient market values. If the team is getting younger his value is diminished. If the team is intended to win now he is not the guy. I join the good for Joe crowd, beacuse I believe wealthy 70 year olds should be on the beach, not the office.

Posted by: abe at October 19, 2007 09:14 AM

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