With that salary, Crede should be a very attractive player to pick up in a trade.

The Sox do have uberprospect Josh Fields ready to take over at 3rd. Given their recent desire to stock up with pitching prospects, I wonder if the Yanks have thought about trading 1 or 2 of their rhp prospects for Crede, installing him at 3rd, and moving Arod to 1st?

I know, I know, it's kicking ARod when he's down, but considering his error problems were with his arm and not his glove last season, it might be something that could work. And I think it'd provide both a better lineup and a better fielding infield than with Manischewitz or whatever his name is at 1st.

As if KW would trade Crede for ANY of the Yanks pitching prospects, let alone "1 or 2" of them. As if, indeed. The Sox have plenty of live young arms now--plenty for the next few years at least--and the Yanks prospects are typically over-rated.

This deal got done because both sides wanted it done. Kenny stayed out of it because he can't stand Boras (who can?), and Crede wanted it done because he knows better than anyone the status of his one major risk--his ailing back (herniated disc). Arbitration might have netted him more money (or not), but it has its associated costs, and it's never pleasant for either side.

Sox arb-eligible players do just fine, since the Sox consistently bend over backwards to avoid going to arbitration.

Mark: You're overvaluing Joe Crede. He's turning 29 in April and coming off his best year when his on-base percentage was .323. That's pathetic.

Why would any team give up 1 or 2 pitching prospects for him, let alone the Yankees who now have one of the best farm systems in the league, according to numerous BA analysts? That's just a bad baseball move. He's not worth it.

Ben-
Prospects are just that. Remember two years ago, when the Cubs had that exalted mantle of "best farm system?" Where'd that get them? Exactly.......

Pathetic is 17+ million per year for a guy Torre couldn't trust to make a throw from third to first Crede is clearly the second best glove at third in the AL. next to Chavez....And last time I checked, it was Crede, not ARod, who had the big playoff hits....Who had the double that knocked in AJ after the phantom dropped third strike in the ALDS? Twasn't ARod, my friend....

Crede is a player, ARod is a compiler (albeit a great one) of stats....Gimme Joe any day of the week, plus the $11 million left over to buy some pitching. It's damned expensive these days, ain't it?

Ben-
Prospects are just that. Remember two years ago, when the Cubs had that exalted mantle of "best farm system?" Where'd that get them? Exactly.......

Pathetic is 17+ million per year for a guy Torre couldn't trust to make a throw from third to first Crede is clearly the second best glove at third in the AL. next to Chavez....And last time I checked, it was Crede, not ARod, who had the big playoff hits....Who had the double that knocked in AJ after the phantom dropped third strike in the ALDS? Twasn't ARod, my friend....

Crede is a player, ARod is a compiler (albeit a great one) of stats....Gimme Joe any day of the week, plus the $11 million left over to buy some pitching. It's damned expensive these days, ain't it?

Frankly the Sox should be happy to get a 2nd tier pitching prospect from the Yanks -- eg. Clippard -- for Crede.

The Sox have a better 3rd baseman, and cheaper, already to play from their own system.

They don't need Crede, and wil eventually either have to trade him or lose him to free agency.

Plus, as Ben pt'd out, he's at the height of his game and value. He's a slick glove and no more than an adequate hitter.

From the Yankee pt of view tho, he's preferable to Manischewitz.

Dude, one hit in a playoff? Gimme a break. I would rather have ARod over Crede every single day of the year. Hands down.

Ben - You missed the point, probably because you chose to. It's not JUST one hit in a playoff. Crede highlights from 2005 post-season:

2005 ALCS Game 2 vs. LAA: Game-winning RBI double in 9th w/ 2 out.

2005 ALCS Game 5 vs. LAA: Game-winning and ALCS-clinching RBI single in 8th inning, after game-tying HR in 7th.

2005 WS Game 1 vs. HOU: Game-winning HR in 4th and a clinic in how to play 3B for the entire game.

2005 WS Game 3 vs. HOU: HR to lead off 5-run 5th inning in which Sox took lead and from which Roy Oswalt has never fully recovered.

Bottom line: If A-Rod does just ONE of these, he gets a free pass for the rest of his career as a Yank. Sure, take A-rod every single day. Just don't count on winning anymore rings until he's gone.

That's right, I said it out loud.

Ben-
I guess what I'm trying to say is that for the 21+ million, the Yanks certainly did not get their money's worth. In case you need to be reminded, it was JETER who carried that team into the playoffs last year, not ARod. Jeter got robbed of the MVP in an incredulous vote, imho. I agree with you that Crede is in his prime, but if he did for the Yanks what he did for the Sox in the last two years (including the playoff stuff, because that's what counts..), he'd be on the damn HOF ballot (see Scott Brosius). And if we're playing armchair GM (seems like we are here), go ahead and take ARod for the 21+ million, I'll take Crede for 6 , buy myself some pitching, and stomp you in a seven game series....

Brosius was on the Hall of Fame ballot because he met the proper requirements and not because he played on the Yankees. The truth is that, even in a so-called down-year, A-Rod more than made up for his bad stretch of fielding by outhitting Joe Crede in every single category except the pointless batting average. A-Rod's OPB was .070 points higher and his slugging was. 020 points higher. He had an OPS plus of 140 compared to Crede's 108. He had more home runs and more RBIs. In fact, his RC/27 outs was 2 runs higher than Joe Crede's. It's not even close.

So Crede had one good postseason. Big deal. Go look at A-Rod's 2004 ALDS numbers. He basically carried the team then. But it's 19 at-bats. You're also talking about 19 at bats for Crede. That's a pointless comparison. Plus, A-Rod doesn't have health issues.

And Mark, your argument doesn't make sense. Last I checked, there are 24 other guys on the Yanks who could come through and the team would win. Last year, it was the pitching and not A-Rod's postseason performance that doomed the Yanks against the Tigers. It's always about pitching.

Mark-
Thank you! I knew I was missing some clutch hits from my argument. Finally, somebody who recognizes a PLAYER! Notice how he doesn't bring up the defense, either...Hmmm.....

Also, it's just WRONG to say that Oswalt has never recovered. Let's look at his numbers from last year. he had a 2.98 ERA in 220 IP with 166 K. His ERA+ was 152, a full-season career best for him. If you think that is "never recovered," I'll take never recovered any day. The only reason he won only 15 games was because the Astros had no offense. How is that never recovered?

Ben-
You got ANYTHING about ARod's head case defense last year? How about Jeter, not ARod, carrying that team last year? I know, that means actually watching the games as opposed to rattling off numbers. The fact remains, if Crede's on the Yankees and does that, he's got a lifetime pass from all you Yankee fans. Keep hoping for ARod to actually be worth the money, though. Good luck....

I watch all of the games and I go to about 20 a year. You're telling me A-Rod's defense was suspect. Do you know that just from his number of errors? At no point in the season was he replaced at third base because of his errors. And I could really care less about how Joe Crede performed in the postseason in 2005. You're comparing apples to oranges. And that's not even the original point.

You Sox fans are the ones who think Joe Crede isn't worth a Humberto Sanchez or Phil Hughes type player. Keep in mind that Humbeto Sancez was traded with two other players for Gary Sheffield who is MUCH better than Joe Crede.

The Sox would be lucky to get a B-grade prospect in exchange for Crede. It's not that hard to find a player of his caliber. And you're way overrating defense.

By the way, who won the 2005 MVP? Joe Crede or Alex Rodriguez?

The playoffs are a crapshoot. That's why it's stupid. It matters what you do over the course of 162 games just to get to the playoffs (which, coincidentally, the White Sox didn't last year). As I've said, anyone with any sense of baseball knowledge would take Alex Rodriguez over Joe Crede. Anyone.

Well,
Overrating defense? It's not just me pointing out his defense last year, it was a stadium full of Yankee fans who booed him for what seemed like forever. Since it's been so damn long since your boys wave won a World Series, I'll remind you what exactly wins a playoff series: pitching, defense, and clutch hitting. Last time I checked, the object of the exercise is to win the World Series, not an MVP award. Cities don't hold rallies to celebrate an MVP award, Ben. And damn the Cardinals for driving down the value of the World Series championship. You cannot reasonably argue though, that the Sox were not the best team from start to finish in 2005, regardless of the damn Cardinals last year.

Whatever Joe Crede's worth, be it mid levels prospects or not, we certainly may find out around the trading deadline this year. And I applaud Cashman for actually growing a pair and demanding personnel control, wrestling it away from those dopes in Tampa who thought they could simply buy a championship. His moves have put them in a better position to compete this year, and to sustain a talent base with some really good young players. Oh yeah, Kenny Williams did that too. So we'll see how it shakes out. But "you Yankee fans", to borrow a phrase from Doug Stanhope, are the same people who would go to a casino and cheer for the house while being a jerk about it. Nobody likes you, and your collective hand-wringing, unjustified bravado, and lack of success since 2000 have brought smiles to the rest of us, especially "us Sox fans."

I'm still not sure how you managed to turn an argument over Joe Crede's worth (or lack thereof) into a personal attack against Yankee fans. I'm sorry that we don't go 88 years between World Champions. I guess our GMs just know how to construct teams better than yours. But I'm done with this discussion. We're not getting anywhere anymore.

Long-windedness, piles of stats and selective memories distill quite simply to:

Joe Crede: excellent defense, clutch hitter during both regular season and mulitple post-season series, clearly not overpaid, but doesn't play for the Yanks so he can't possibly compare favorably to...

A-Rod: mediocre defense, better hitting during regular season, clutch hitting typically declines in post-season, very likely overpaid.

Note the overpaid/not overpaid is actually the ORIGINAL POINT of this dicussion thread.

Oh yeah, and...

Yankee pitching prospects: we'll see, then we'll know.

Thanks, Mark :) Whew...Now I can go on with my day.

And here I thought my comment about moving ARod to first would be the controversial point . . .