Baseball Musings
Baseball Musings
December 12, 2006
Boras the Virtuoso

Scott Boras is playing the Red Sox front office like a Stradivarius. By doing nothing, he's gotten the Red Sox to:

  1. Raise their offer to Matsuzaka.
  2. Negotiate on his home turf.
  3. Negotiate on his terms.

And the Red Sox know it (emphasis added).

Epstein said that he and Lucchino intend to present a new offer to Boras today, even though the club never received a counter offer to its original proposal. The offer, Epstein said, is of "considerable magnitude," describing it as the biggest offer given to a player who has never played in the big leagues and larger than any offer given to a Japanese player.

"It's highly unusual," Epstein said of submitting a second offer without receiving a response to the first, "but it's showing that Matsuzaka is extremely important to the Boston Red Sox. It's normally not a good ploy, but we want to demonstrate to Matsuzaka, and the fans of Japanese baseball, just how important he is to us."

It's not a ploy when you cave. The Red Sox upper management flew to California to get it done. So far, the only people moving in these non-negotiations are the Red Sox. Boras has them over a barrel and knows it. At this point, I would not be surprised if Matsuzaka ended up with a contract worth between $75 and $100 million dollars.


Posted by David Pinto at 09:03 AM | Agents | TrackBack (0)
Comments

Scott Boras is a criminal. He's the reason the average Joe can't afford to take his family to the ballpark. I'm all for players getting their just rewards but NO player is worth the money they are raking in these days. Come on, if Ted Williams or Willie Mays were playing today they would command a salary in the range of $30 million a year. So you and I start paying $100 for a seat in the nose bleed section. This Japanese pitcher may be great but why chase him like a dog in heat. I say let him stay in Japan and some other sucker will give him big bucks next year. The Red Sox are foolish for bowing down to the likes of Boras. Now there's an "honest" profession. Back MLB teams into a corner and rob them blind so you can get your cut of the millions. He's just a blood sucker who should be in politics fighting for the rights of citizens rather than vastly overpaid athletes. What is baseball in America coming to???

Posted by: Bob at December 12, 2006 09:31 AM

I think my anger is similar to Bob's but I have mixed feelings. Boras's job is to act in the best interests of his client. While I do have some doubt on if he is doing that due to the reports of him not making his client avail to the media and the Sox.

If I was a player I would want him negotiating for me because he does get his clients the best contract, but as a fan he disgusts me. That is where my conflict lies.

Posted by: JB at December 12, 2006 09:39 AM

I hope major league hitters pound him to the tune of a double digit ERA. Boston is completely stupid if they meet Boras' demands for a guy who has never faced big league hitting. Sure Japanese baseball has improved and a few players have come here and played very well, but the position players have had the greater success. Pitchers not so much.

Posted by: LargeBill at December 12, 2006 09:42 AM

It was the Red Sawx, not Boras who posted the ridiculous 51 mil fee.

Sorry, but from where I'm sitting it's ludicrous to be willing to pay more than 50 mil for the right to talk to a player, and then offer that player only 8mil a year. Boras is right. If he's worth the 50 mil, then it'd seem he's worth at least 15 mil year, given the market, where nleague avg pitchers like Meche get big money.

In Europe when football players are sold for 10s of millions of dollars, the buying team doesn't then tell the player that that fee will be taken out of THEIR contract. Contract negotiations are a separate issue.

Posted by: Yankee Fan in Chicago at December 12, 2006 09:48 AM

Whether or not Boras appears to be playing them well will depend on a lot on the outcome. Right now, he's set it up so the Red Sox are the ones making all the effort, especially since he apparently has never even made a counter offer. If a deal ends up getting signed, he'll look good, but Matsuzaka ends up back in Japan, it'll be entirely on his shoulders. And that's not going to help him get any new Japanese clients.

Posted by: FC at December 12, 2006 09:48 AM

The main leverage the Sox always had was Matsuzaka's unwillingness to go back to Japan. It would be seen as a major let down and he would appear greedy to his fan base in Japan. He doesn't want to be embarassed. In the last couple days, it seemed like Boras was winning the propaganda battle by making Matsuzaka look like he wasn't getting a fair offer and the Red Sox weren't being reasonable. By flying to CA, the Sox have struck a blow in the PR battle and upped the ante on Boras and Matsuzaka. Now Theo and the gang are the ones trying to get it done and Boras is obstructing things. Theo's mention of the "fans of Japanese baseball" is the more telling section of the quote and definitely should be emphasized instead of the "not a good ploy" section.

Posted by: Aaron at December 12, 2006 10:00 AM

Remember, the team's management has to sign the contracts, too. Boras can demand anything he wants, but if the GMs don't take the bait, then the player doesn't make the money. I don't like the guy, but I wouldn't blame high ticket prices on him (or the other agents). It takes two to tango.

Posted by: sabernar at December 12, 2006 10:02 AM

Bob, do you really think that if Boras' clients got paid less money that ticket prices would be lower? Don't you think that owners will do what they can to maximize their profits? If the owners can make more by charging more then they will regardless of how much money they're spending on the players. Boras is just trying to get as much money as he can for his clients. That's his job.

Posted by: Harry R. at December 12, 2006 10:05 AM

Earl Nightingale a famous motivational speaker once said," How many of us are paid what we are worth? Then he went on to say, " what determines what we are paid ?" The answer, its the amount of people we serve. Think about that. How does a movie star get paid all those huge dollars they get? In essence, its the amount of people that show up at the box office to watch their movies. Well, as long as people keep showing up at the box offices of baseball, these players will keep getting paid what they are worth.

Posted by: spindoc at December 12, 2006 10:05 AM

You guys are crazy. Bob, Boras isn't the reason players get paid so much. The reason they get paid so much is because the average Joe CAN afford to take his family to the ballpark, and still does - even at $25-45 per ticket, $30 to park, etc.

Yankee Fan, you're off-base as well I think. Is DM worth $15/year in this market? Probably. Two points arise, though. One, the Red Sox aren't responsible for the Royals' idiocy. Just because the Royals paid Meche $11/year, doesn't mean that's his market value. And second, the Red Sox look at the posting fee as sort of a down payment on DM. They didn't pay $51 million to get to talk to him, they paid $51 million to be the only ones that could talk to him. "Market" is not an applicable term when one team has a monopoly on the negotiating rates. Even if the Yankees wanted to offer $16 million a year, the Red Sox don't have to beat that because the Yankees can't truly offer it. The Red Sox bought a monopoly, and don't have to compete with a free market.

And David... I'm not sure the Red Sox are in that bad of a position. Sure they outbid their original offer, but I am guessing that their outbid was what they would have responded to Boras' counter offer with anyways (had he given one). I just don't believe that the Red Sox are going to overspend for this guy, given the amount they've already spent on free agents this offseason and the degree to which it appears (to fans) they're doing their best to sign him.

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2006 10:09 AM

Bob, do you really think that if Boras' clients got paid less money that ticket prices would be lower? Don't you think that owners will do what they can to maximize their profits?

This why, in a general sense, I've not had a problem with selling the naming rights to everything; my feeling has always been "well, if the Mets get $20 million from Citigroup, then maybe the team won't raise ticket prices (as much)".

'Course, I have no actual evidence that this is true, but it helps me get to sleep at night.

Posted by: mikeski at December 12, 2006 10:12 AM

The Red Sox honchos know they had an average team last year, one that could have easily finished under .500. They see the Yankees getting further and further ahead, so they're throwing money around. With baseball revenue running over five billion in total, and labor peace for another five years, it's not surprising to see stupid money flying about, especially from a sold-out and fancy-priced Fenway.

At least other teams will get some nice luxury-tax dollars from the Sox. As for ticket prices, baseball remains very affordable compared to other sports. It's the advantage of a 162-game season.

Posted by: Casey Abell at December 12, 2006 10:24 AM

I agree with Yankee Fan.

Given the deal signed by Gil freakin' Meche, Boras can't let Matsuzaka sign for less than $11M/yr.

I realize Matsuzaka doesn't have the leverage of a free agent like Zito to drive up his price, but a deal in the neighbourhood of Oswalt's contract extension (5yrs, $73M) would be "fair value". If Boras really is asking for more than $15M a year, however, than he is being a dink, and he knows it:

The Oswalt contract is certainly relevant to what a premium player is worth when he's a year away from free agency. It's not a free agent value.'

Or at least that's what he said about Zito. "Premium player a year away from free agency"... sounds like Matsuzaka.

Anything less than $10M/yr is an insult from the Red Sox, no matter how much they cry poor. (Hell, the resgined Beckett for 3yrs, $30M in the middle of the worst full season he's ever had.) The posting fee is none of Boras' (or Matsuzaka's) business, and Boston shouldn't be using it in the negotiations.

Posted by: Jurgen at December 12, 2006 10:24 AM

I'm not so sure when this is all said and done Boras is going to look like such a virtuoso. I also don't think he is working in the best interest of his client in this case. If his stubborn long-term play to destroy the posing system fails to land DM with the Sox, then he is NOT doing his client a service and I think it will blow up on him.

I think the Sox will land him, but overpay. But these days who isn't overpaid?

As a Sox fan, I'm almost more worried about the length of the contract over the amount. I am still leery of DM's potential success. The Japanese League is a long way from the AL East.

Posted by: Mr. Furious at December 12, 2006 10:25 AM

While we're on ticket prices, I rustled up some numbers from Google (now screaming - see their page). Average cost for a family of four, including food, souvenirs, parking, etc...

NFL $321. 62 (A real rip. The TV viewer has a better seat than anybody in the house.)

NBA $263.44

NHL $258.08 (I was only vaguely aware that these guys were working again.)

MLB $164.43

All the numbers are 2004 or later. Now, $164.43 isn't peanuts (sorry) but it looks pretty good compared to the other gouges. Baseball can hold down prices because it has a lot of games in big parks. Of course, Fenway will cost you two arms and three legs, but most teams don't rip you off nearly as badly.

Posted by: Casey Abell at December 12, 2006 10:44 AM

Regarding the ticket prices for MLB games. Red Sox fans well know that getting tickets at initial prices is nearly impossible. Northern New Englanders pay upwards of $90 for a $25 seat. Brokers buy up blocks of seats and sell them on the internet and over the phone. Being an avid Sox fan since 1967 I really enjoy going to historic Fenway Park with my wife and daughter. It's just absurd. Saying the players are at fault is nuts. Yes the owners can be blamed for this situation because they offer multi-million dollar contracts to "average" players (see Gil freakin' Meche). I still admire Billy Beane and his don't over spend philosophy. The A's always seem to put together a good, young team that competes for the division. As for the Yankees, Mets and Red Sox.....add more seats and reduce the ticket prices. I was looking at a program from 1976 the other day. BOX seats were less than the price of a beer & a hot dog! Sure, we keep showing up and paying the price but where does the madness end? $100 million a year? $200 for an obstructed view seat in right field? I just think baseball needs to look inside itself (the infrastructure if you will) and come up with a plan to give baseball back to the fans and get the agents jobs at Wal Mart. Let's see if they can live on $5.15 an hour instead of high-jacking teams for billions. Yes, I am bitter. Maybe I'm idealistic too but baseball is a GAME. It's supposed to be an American sport geared toward the fans. Why is it all about the players & the owners now? Give me the old days when a player spent his entire career with one team, didn't hold out for more money and signed autographs before & after the game at no charge. It's not about the team any more it's about fatty contracts and making money to build new stadiums (holding cities hostage at times). PLEASE..bring back the GAME of baseball, I beg of you. Okay, I'll get off my high horse now and take the incoming differing opinions.

Posted by: Bob at December 12, 2006 11:08 AM

"Scott Boras is a criminal. He's the reason the average Joe can't afford to take his family to the ballpark"

I hope you know more about baseball than you do about economics. Joe Average can't afford to take his family to the game because of supply and demand, not because of Mr. Boras.

All Boras does, is transfer wealth from owners to players. Personally, I'd rather see richer players, than richer owners.

Posted by: MHS at December 12, 2006 11:23 AM

Bob,

No one's stopping you and your family from going to a game, it's just you're not willing to pay the amount the owners have set for the game you want to see.

Go to a minor league game.

Go to a Little League game.

Going to a game isn't a right.

Posted by: Basura at December 12, 2006 11:44 AM

I'd say the Sox have Boras over a barrel, but they just don't know it. Boras can't negotiate with anyone else and the Seibu Lions will demand this deal get done.

The Sox are spending $51 million already if he signs, plus at least 5/50 to get him. That's $101 million for a 5 year deal. It's not worth it.

The kid is not worth $20+ mil per year, whether he gets all that money or not. He hasn't thrown one pitch in the majors.

The Sox should tell Boras to take a hike and sign Clemens for $20mm. It's less committment and they'll know what they have.

Posted by: PoliticalCritic at December 12, 2006 11:47 AM

"The kid is not worth $20+ mil per year, whether he gets all that money or not. He hasn't thrown one pitch in the majors."

The kid isn't getting $20+ mil per year in your scenario. It's not Boras' fault the Red Sox clearly planned on a kickback and are trying to lowball him. They misplayed the posting system and should be the one taking the blame if this doesn't go through.

And about ticket prices, it's $15/ticket to sit in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium and $20 to park. Tell your kids they don't need $5 hot dogs and your family of 4 is watching the Yankees for $80.

Posted by: Adam at December 12, 2006 12:01 PM

The Sox are spending $51 million already if he signs, plus at least 5/50 to get him. That's $101 million for a 5 year deal. It's not worth it.

If Boston wasn't prepared to spend that much money they were stupid to get involved in the posting process and OVERBIDING their next closest competitor by over $10M--unless their #1 goal really was keeping him away from NYY.

The posting fee has nothing to do now with the negotiations. Boras and Matsuzaka won't see a nickel of that money. Consider it a sunk cost and move on. Get on with signing him for 5yrs, $75M. If Boras won't take that (which by his own admission is the fair value for premium talent a year away from free agency) then Boston can come out of this with head held high.

Posted by: Jurgen at December 12, 2006 12:04 PM

Sorry about the tag.

Posted by: Jurgen at December 12, 2006 12:07 PM

Jurgen, it's not a sunk cost, since they get it back if no deal is struck. If it was a true sunk cost, then yeah - DM, through Boras, should be able to get something reasonably similar to market value.

Adam, I don't think the Sox are trying to lowball him at all. The economics of the posting system practically guarantee a player moving from Japan to the US will NOT get what he would have gotten if he was a free agent in the US to begin with. The upside for a Japanese player making this transition is that the below-market salary they see is still far more than their "at-market" expectancy of a salary in Japan.

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2006 12:28 PM

Had to smile at the comment on 1976 prices. Ever heard of something called inflation? The nasty old Consumer Price Index says that, on average, things cost three-and-a-half times today what they did in 1976. If you're looking for baseball - or almost anybody else - to return to 1976 prices, you're living in economic fantasyland.

The plain fact is that MLB games remain very affordable compared to the other major sports. The constant whine about "Average Joe" and his average family not being able to go to a game makes me wonder...just who bought those 76 million tickets last year? Is every Joe above average, like every kid in that mythical school?

Yeah, taking the family out to the ballpark will run you more than ten bucks. But it's not going to bankrupt the Average Joe, either. That's why the tickets sell, even at Fenway.

Posted by: Casey Abell at December 12, 2006 12:37 PM

Boras' job is to serve his clients. Matsuzaka has demonstrated pretty clearly that he wants to play in the majors next year and Boras will ultimately respect his client's wishes. It's Boras' job to get D-Mat the best deal possible, but Matsuzaka is making the final decision here. Given his public statements and recent actions over the past few months, it seems clear that D-Mat will choose to play in the majors next year.

Posted by: iowa dave at December 12, 2006 12:45 PM

I'm not surprised Boras is playing hardball, but I'm half-surprised the Sox aren't telling him to screw himself (actually, I wonder if a team could boycott Boras clients altogether, and if they get any flack from their players - "You're pricing us out of the market for some stars!" - tell them that it's money that comes out of their own pockets. See how that changes their minds...).

Posted by: Chris at December 12, 2006 12:45 PM

Mike,

If the Royals can afford to throw away $55M, Boston can do the same. I realise it isn't a sunk cost, but the Red Sox need to treat it like one. Boston can still afford to add $15M/yr to their payroll and come in well-under the dreaded Yankee tax.

The economics of the posting system practically guarantee a player moving from Japan to the US will NOT get what he would have gotten if he was a free agent in the US to begin with.

True in theory, but that was until Boston's $51M winning bid. To Boras, that signals they're willing to spend major money. (If they thought they'd be able to workout a kick-back with the Lions, that's their own damn fault.) I really believe there's more at stake for Boston here. They need starting pitching. And it's not in Matsuzaka's interest to sign for anything less than Oswalt or Halladay. If Matsuzaka goes back to Japan for a year (or two depending on your source), he'll certainly get his $15M+ as a free agent.

Posted by: Jurgen at December 12, 2006 12:47 PM

To clarify: I meant "Matsuzaka will certainly get his $15M+ as a free agent in '08 or '09".

Posted by: Jurgen at December 12, 2006 12:50 PM

By the way, I finally dug up the numbers for Fenway. The 2005 cost for a family of four was $276.24. That's not just tickets, of course, but includes all the other stuff the kiddies and you expect at a game. The average ticket price was $44.56.

That's the highest in baseball, but it's still lower than the average NFL cost and roughly comparable to the NBA and NHL averages. Pricey, but a lot of Average Joes can afford it.

The cheapest package in baseball was, you guessed it, the woeful Royals at $119.85. Average ticket: $13.71. Cheap, but you have to watch the Royals.

Posted by: Casey Abell at December 12, 2006 12:52 PM

Golly, I'm shocked, shocked to hear that the negotiations have hit a snag. And after the Red Sox have made such a good-faith effort to work out a deal, too -- even raising their initial offer! Well, no one can say they didn't negotiate in good faith and expect to be taken seriously now, so I guess it's Boston or Seibu for D-Mat.

Posted by: cwp at December 12, 2006 01:00 PM

I'm an actuary, so please forgive my obsession with numbers that have dollar signs attached. The average ticket for all MLB in 2005 was $21.17, which doesn't seem outlandish to me. The average NFL ticket was $54.75.

The most I ever paid for a ticket was fifty bucks for a very good seat right behind home plate at the Rangers park in Arlington. (Sigh, those seats will cost $55 this season.) You can get good upper deck seats behind the plate for under twenty bucks. That's where we usually sit. Cheapest seat in the house is six bucks. Three for kids!

Posted by: Casey Abell at December 12, 2006 01:01 PM

They're clearly overpaying if you include the posting fee, but if they're willing to give J.DL. Drew $14mm per year, they can ante up a lot more for a front-line pitcher.

I'd rather see them overpay than give away another Freddie Sanchez, Hanley Ramirez, Anibel Sanchez, Andy Marte, or Josh Bard. I could go on.

They could've had an entire infield, catcher and pitcher included, for about $2.5 mil.

Posted by: PoliticalCritic at December 12, 2006 01:09 PM

Though the dead horse has already been beaten, ticket prices are almost purely determined on demand. Baseball teams raise ticket prices because they can. Teams should raise ticket prices to a point where the quanitity demanded goes down. If a stadium seats 35,000, the tickets should be priced in a way that the 35,001st person thinks the price is too high and will not demand a seat. Since the Red Sox tickets seem to get scalped at a much higher price, the Sox probably should raise prices even higher.

If you owned a car dealership would you charge less just so more people could drive a nice car? No, you would attempt to charge the highest price that someone is willing to pay. If they are willing to pay it than why is the business to blame?

Posted by: Matt at December 12, 2006 01:20 PM

Scott Boras -- great for his clients, bad for the game of baseball. End of story.

They'll get this thing done somehow.

Posted by: Ryan at December 12, 2006 02:11 PM

Something I don't understand, which I would appreciate if someone could clear up for me. If the Red Sox have the highest bid, but don't end up signing him, doesn't it just move down the list, to the team with the next highest bid after negotiations fail? If not, the Red Sox could clearly have bid the 51.1 million just to prevent the Yankees from getting him, and are now just putting on a show so they won't be accused of doing so.

Posted by: Dan at December 12, 2006 02:24 PM

No, it doesn't. There'd have to be evidence that Boston didn't make a good faith effort to sign Matsuzaka, and it doesn't look like that'll be the case; if Boras leaves $40-50MM on the table because he wants $100MM, that's on him; not Boston.

Posted by: the other josh at December 12, 2006 02:27 PM

Ryan,

Why do you think Boras is bad for baseball? If he doesn't get the money for his clients it'll just stay with the owner.

Do you prefer the money stays with the owner? If so, I'd truly be interested in reading your reasons.

Posted by: Basura at December 12, 2006 02:59 PM

I really hate to be negative but to all you economic wizards out there...guys like Boras have a direct effect on baseball. Yes, supply & demand is the backbone of free enterprise but if sharks like him weren't handling players maybe, just maybe you wouldn't have to mortgage the farm to go to a ballgame. Ya know, I don't know if any of you have heard this expression before but......"It doesn't hurt to dream." I dream of baseball in it's purest form. Maybe I should stick to the local Little League. I didn't know there were so many Scrooges out there. Hmmmmm.......sad. Maybe if more fans looked at baseball as a game rather than an enterprise we'd get somewhere. I guess I'm just a relic from long ago. It's all about the bucks! If the Red Sox sign DM I don't think he'll turn the team around. He may win 12 games but lose 12. The system of paying to bid (pay some more) is totally insane. Pay me to talk to you about getting paid for my job. Like that will ever happen. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Posted by: Bob at December 12, 2006 03:04 PM

I think Boras' influence is primarily to exacerbate the existing economic disparities between teams. In a free market, I see no problem with a player or his agent trying to get the most money for his services. The problems arise when large-market teams have consistent advantages in the aquisition of talent, thus marginalizing some franchises to the detriment of MLB as a whole. Abuse of the minor-leage posting system eventually led to the Rule 4 draft and the destruction of the independent minor leagues; Boras' action in this case could initiate a similar path for international baseball.

While a number of posters have blamed player salaries for the increase in ticket prices, I believe the causal link goes in the other direction. Ticket prices are what they are because we as fans are willing to pay them; when teams price their tickets lower that market value, brokers step in to "correct the inefficiency." Players get the contracts they get because MLB is awash with money at the moment. I strongly encourage those that don't like dropping a C-note to take their family to a game to enjoy the wonders of minor league, college, and high school baseball. The best baseball game I saw last year was a UNC/UVa game with Sean Doolittle and Andrew Miller starting.

Posted by: Ryne at December 12, 2006 03:28 PM

39 comments later and the expression "pyrrhic victory" has yet to appear. That's exactly what this signing is going to turn into if they Red Sox pay Matsuzaka $100M on top of the $51M they've already agreed to as his posting fee. That could really wreck even a team as rich as Boston.

Posted by: Rob McMillin at December 12, 2006 03:32 PM

Baseball in it's purest form? Gimmie a break, Bob.

Lines like: "I didn't know there were so many Scrooges out there. Hmmm....sad." are condesending to those of us who try to have discussions about financial issues affecting teams we love. If you don't want to engage in those conversations, fine. Go post somewhere else.

Please don't dismiss other people's interests as 'sad' becasue they aren't yours.

I don't understand complaints about Scott Boras, who's doing his job, or players getting huge salaries. Professional baseball is a huge business, and it ain't the player

Owners are the ones setting ticket costs and hot dog prices. Owners have made the minor leagues indentured servants to big league clubs, ruining any possibility of competitive baseball.

Meanwhile, most professional players don't make the majors. If they do, they don't earn big bucks until they're 27.

Posted by: iowa dave at December 12, 2006 03:37 PM

Basura,
I may be a bit biased seeing that I am a Red Sox fan. But is it wrong for me to want Boras to think fairly, on both sides of the issues, and not scratching for every cent. I mean, Matsuzaka has not even thrown a pitch in the Majors and he wants something around 15 mil per season for this guy! Ichiro and Matsui were probably underpaid coming out of Japan and if I remember that Ichiro market was similar to this one (when guys like Manny, A-Rod, and Mussina got huge dollars). I think Boras wants to prove that the posting system should not count against the player himself and that the Sox will have to pay every penny of Matsuzaka's market value and maybe even more..

Posted by: Ryan at December 12, 2006 06:46 PM

It is amazing that people can't understand the complaining about Boras. "He's just doing his job," they say. Why does that matter? Lots of people get criticized who are just doing their job. Maybe people get on Boras because he as much as anyone has raised the price of mediocrity. No one would get upset about truly great players making millions and millions. The problem is jerks like Boras fighting for every last penny for average players. And whether you can understand basic economics or not the cost of paying the payroll has an impact on the cost of tickets.

Posted by: LargeBill at December 12, 2006 07:22 PM

Ryan,

No one is forcing the Red Sox to offer 15 mil per year. If they want to, fine. Are you taking the stance the Sox shouldn't have to pay market value? This is Matsuzaka's free agent opportunity.

Posted by: Basura at December 12, 2006 08:06 PM

There are three posibilities:

First, the Red Sox posted 51 million to keep him away from the Yankees in which case the league should punish them.

Second, the Red Sox posted 51 million thinking they could then negotiate with his original club and use part of the posting fee towards his salary. This sort of pathetic attempt at circumventing the rules and underhanded methods is nothing new to them. Anyone remember the hotel "comedy" with Contreras? How pathetic was that?

Third, they thought Boras would be nice and would accept a long term contract for under 10 million a year. Do they know Boras or is it just a case of feeble minds?

The reality is Boras does have options. He has no problem sending him back to Japan. If the Red Sox want to avoid another embarrasment like the A-Rod saga then they will give in and accept 3 years at 15 million + a year. That would mean 30 million plus salary a year if you include the posting fee, which would be another embarrasment! Otherwise you will see him pitching for the Yankees as soon as next year.

Posted by: another86yearwait at December 12, 2006 08:44 PM

In Europe when football players are sold for 10s of millions of dollars, the buying team doesn't then tell the player that that fee will be taken out of THEIR contract. Contract negotiations are a separate issue.

One thing also to consider is that the player gets 10% of the of the transfer fee as an incentive in European football.

Personally, that should have been guaranteed up front in this situation too, if you ask me. Contingent on a contract being signed, natch.

Posted by: Josh at December 12, 2006 08:54 PM

First, the Red Sox posted 51 million to keep him away from the Yankees in which case the league should punish them.

Laffin. Only a Yankee$ fan would say that with a straight face.

Second, the Red Sox posted 51 million thinking they could then negotiate with his original club and use part of the posting fee towards his salary. This sort of pathetic attempt at circumventing the rules and underhanded methods is nothing new to them. Anyone remember the hotel "comedy" with Contreras? How pathetic was that?

Laffin again. Oh, my ribs are sore.

I'm sorry, but I stick with the concept of European football and they should have locked in 10% of the fee being used as a "bonus" for the player. Ah, well...

Third, they thought Boras would be nice and would accept a long term contract for under 10 million a year. Do they know Boras or is it just a case of feeble minds?

The reality is Boras does have options. He has no problem sending him back to Japan. If the Red Sox want to avoid another embarrasment like the A-Rod saga then they will give in and accept 3 years at 15 million + a year. That would mean 30 million plus salary a year if you include the posting fee, which would be another embarrasment! Otherwise you will see him pitching for the Yankees as soon as next year.

Not necessarily true. It's very bad form (read: dishonorable) for Japanese men to return to a situation where they've said their goodbyes. At some point, Matsuzaka will ask Boras if he's lost his mind. Boras, for all of his underhanded dealing, is a smart man. The last thing he'll want to do is shut out an entire market for himself in the future.

This deal will get done. I guarantee it.

Posted by: Josh at December 12, 2006 09:02 PM

Many of these posts sympathize with Boras because "that's his job". Well that's rubbish. Businesses every minute of every day negotiate and mitigate in good faith and Boras never displays this. Sure the Sox may seem to be lowballing the offer at $8 mil a year, however this guys still has not faced MLB batting over the course of a year(s) and its still a huge risk no matter how good he looks on youtube. The sox should offer 10mil a year and a buckletload of incentives. If he's good enough to front the rotation with an era under 3.20, then he'll earn his cash. However it still doesn't change the fact that Boras is a whore who purveys his wares to the highest bidder.

Posted by: Hugh Jorgan at December 12, 2006 09:09 PM

There is no such thing as "European football". There is football and then there is "American football".

In football, transfer negotiations take into account that percentage that is due to the player. In this case it is clear that the posting fee has nothing to do with the player.

Finally, they knew what Boras is like so by posting the 51 million they either had a trick up their sleeves, they were prepare to pay way over 20 million for him (including the posting fee) or they are just feeble minded. Any other reasons?

Posted by: another86yearwait at December 12, 2006 09:18 PM

There is no such thing as "European football". There is football and then there is "American football".

Finally, something you and I agree on.

Just that, tho.

I think that they paid a slightly elevated amount to ensure exclusive rights. My bet is that there were other teams (at least two) who bid above $40 million. I don't think anyone is being "feeble minded" in this case, other than Boras playing tricks with the Japanese league. My opinion is he worked out a base deal with Matsuzaka and is working the table as close to the deadline to get as much money for his client (and himself) as possible.

What worries me is the lack of contact between the Red Sox and Matsuzaka himself. By insulating him, Boras runs the risks of alienating his client and both Japanese leagues, and therefore causing some serious damage. He has to respect both cultures.

I don't fault Boras for his choice in career or his past moves. I don't fault the Red Sox for trying to get Matsuzaka on the team, or for just guaranteeing the Yankee$ don't get him. Remember that if the deal falls through, they get their money back, Boras is screwed in Japan forever, and Matsuzaka has to go back to the Pacific League severely dishonored. Ce la vie.

What does piss me off is the disturbing amount money paid for J.D. "Nancy" Drew. Dear Christ...

Posted by: Josh at December 12, 2006 09:51 PM

Don't you think the RedSox are also screwed forever in Japan if they do not get a deal done? You think the public over there will blame Boras alone? I don't think the RedSox can play chicken without consequences.

And can someone please xplain why he would be "dishonored" if he goes back to Japan? Wouldn't it be more "dishonourable" to accept less than you are worth?

I don't think Boras is going to cave so the RedSox either overpay (understatement) or have another A-Rod case on their hands. Why post so much money knowing the factors involved (Boras) if you are not willing to pay? My guess is the RedSox were planning on trying to get the Lions to give back some of that posting fee and that way bid higher than anyone else. It backfired on them.

Posted by: another86yearwait at December 12, 2006 10:10 PM

No, I don't think they are screwed. If this doesn't get done, John Henry has already showed that he's more than willing to lay all of the Sox cards on the table. Boras, on the other hand, has not. In the end, when all of this is in print and available for the public to read, it's Boras who will end up looking bad. Hell, it's not even done and look at the comments above.

In Japanese culture, it's considered very dishonorable to say your goodbyes with intention to leave, and then not go. Considering the public offer from the Red Sox was three times his salary in the Pacific League, and the Lions have $51 million to finally refurbish their stadium, it would be far more dishonorable to return to Japan.

It hasn't backfired yet, since the clock is still running. Even if the contract falls through, I'm confident the Sox will come out looking better than Boras. And we don't have an A-Rod situation per se, because A-Rod isn't in a Red Sox uniform. If anything, sometimes the best trade you make in a season is the one that doesn't happen.

Posted by: Josh at December 13, 2006 06:53 AM

"There is no such thing as "European football". There is football and then there is "American football".

Finally, something you and I agree on."

Well that's just sad. There is Football, Australian Rules Football, and there is Soccer. And that's a fact.

Posted by: abe at December 13, 2006 08:21 AM

Actually, I prefer to call it American Rugby.

;-)

Posted by: Josh at December 13, 2006 12:28 PM
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