Call me a bitter Sox fan if you will, but I find it difficult to praise Cashman and Torre here. Even minus their injured players, the guys they were left with had a payroll higher than any other MLB team. And what did they do when it got to deadline time? Spent more money, on Lidle and Abreu, to patch up any remaining holes.

Any time Miguel Cairo and Bernie Williams are combining for 600 AB's in a season, I feel like there's something more the GM and manager can do. Though I am impressed with Torre and the rest of the Yankees for constantly getting on ARod's case because of a minor decrease in production, to the point that I actually feel bad for the guy and would wish him success if he ever went to another team.

Whine whine whine. Red Sox have the second highest payroll. The fact is, at the trading deadline the Yankees were able to make the trades, RS couldn't.

Time to start cheering for the Tigers... Man I wish Canada had more baseball teams...

I'm not a sox or yankees fan, but saying the Red Sox have the same financial freedom as the Yanks is absurd, rbj, and you know it. The yanks outspent Boston by 80 million plus dollars this season, and the only way they were able to get abreau and lidle was because they had the money. I mean, if baseball had a real commissioner that trade would have been voided, because the Phillies didn't receive anything from the Yankees. A similar situation happened in LA, where the Dodgers were able to buy a player (Maddux) for pretty much nothing in return. And the Dodgers have a pretty high payroll, too.
While I'm as tired of the NY/Boston drama as anyone, I really think that the payroll differences between the Yankees and anyone else, including Boston, puts the Yanks at a distinct competitive advantage.
I think Torre is a fine manager, but give him the Marlins for a year and we'll see what he's really made of.

Stay tuned as far as the Sox payroll is concerned: according to co-GM Curt Schilling, the team is sparing 'no expense' this offseason.

And re: the Abreu trade - the Yanks gave up their #1 draft pick as part of that deal. The reason he became expendable is because he's a SS, and Jeter isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

No one twisted Gillick's arm - he's more than a competent GM, and Abreu had fallen out of favor with the fans & management.

Torre put in his dues with lesser teams, but you'd have to agree that everyone has their 'perfect' situation that they thrive in. Joe's happens to be with the Yankees, here & now.

Payroll - the constant cry of the Yankee hater. The Yankees have ALWAYS spent money - according to the numbers, they should have won the World Series every year since George bought the team.

Please.

"And re: the Abreu trade - the Yanks gave up their #1 draft pick as part of that deal. The reason he became expendable is because he's a SS, and Jeter isn't going anywhere anytime soon."

And, oh yeah, he's not projected to ever even be a starting short stop in the majors. He can't hit. He was a failed #1 pick, and the rest of the guys the yanks"gave up" aren't even expected to make the bigs. That's a lopsided trade. Could, say, the Twins have made that trade? They have better prospects in their system than the yanks, but wqe know that the answer is no. They couldn't afford the 25 mil plus owed to Abreu and Lidle. This isn't the whining of a "Yankee-hater" ; I pretty much don't care at all about the AL. I'm just stating facts.
I think Torre is a great manager - but he has a distinct advantage over most other managers. Here's an easy analogy, since I'm a Pads fan. Bruce Bochy started this year with a rotation that included Chan Ho Park and Dewon Brazelton, and a starting lineup that included a rookie 2B and Vinny Castilla, along with an injury prone shortstop. When Brazelton got hammered in his first 2 starts, Bochy had to use a rookie junkballer (Mike Thompson) and when castilla proved ineffective he had to go with equally ineffective Mark Bellhorn. When the Yankees lost an outfielder they were able to go get Abreu for nothing, along with a serviceable #5 starter. The yankees payroll doesn't automatically make them better, but it lets them cover injuries and ineffectiveness better. If San Diego had given a million dollar contract to a guy like Aaron Small, and he didn't work out, do you think they could just release him, like NY did? Ditto Shawn Chacon or Carl Pavano or Jaret Wright or Farnsworth. If a team like San Diego committed the tens of millions of dollars to those guys and then gotten the performance out of them the Yankees have gooten, San Diego would be sitting at 60 wins right now, because they don't have the payroll to just replace a 10 million dollar a year pitcher. They'd be combing the waiver wires for the Kyle Snyders and Sidney Ponsons of the world. Joe Torre is going to go to the Hall of Fame as a manager, and Bruce Bochy isn't. But can you really say that they're doing remotely the same sort of job? I mean, managing egos is a heck of a lot different than managing to win using scrubs like Geoff Blum and Mark Bellhorn and Woody Williams, right?

I'm in the middle on Torre and Cashman. Both are enormously talented, experienced, and very good at their jobs. They also have a seemingly bottomless bankroll behind them, and it would be interesting to see what they could do in Kansas City or Tampa Bay.

The Yankees have at least one player at every position with an eight-figure salary... but they've also been pretty successful this year at integrating young talent. Cashman and Torre don't deserve credit for high-priced acquisitions like Abreu, but they do deserve it for Cano, Cabrera, and Wang. And Torre kept his team's head in the game (except for A-Rod, apparently) through the injuries and pitching struggles, when his players could have easily gotten discouraged.

David.
Carl Pohlad has more money than Steinbrenner. He's just not willing to spend it. He'd rather have a low rent team and take his cut of George's payroll tax and revenue sharing and put it in his pocket.
Did anyone put a gun to the Phillies head to sign Abreu to that deal, or then to make the trade?

Victory is always sweet. It's more true this year considering the Yanks lost Matsui and Sheffield for nearly the whole race against the RedSux but will still win the division by what should be the largest margin since 2001.

"Carl Pohlad has more money than Steinbrenner. He's just not willing to spend it. He'd rather have a low rent team and take his cut of George's payroll tax and revenue sharing and put it in his pocket.
Did anyone put a gun to the Phillies head to sign Abreu to that deal, or then to make the trade?"

Carl Pohlad is a terrible owner, agreed, but he also doesn't have the lucrative TV contract that the Yanks (and Cubs) have. And the Twins have managed to win with limitations by developing their own players. But it's not going to be enough to get them past a team that has 10 million dollar a year players at six positions.
And the Phillies didn't "have" to make that trade, but I really wonder why they didn't try to get any value for their players they were giving up...and why the Yanks didn't have to give up any value to aquire them.

Wow, I'm sure glad the Yankees' injury-plagued season will make for a sweeter taste come the postseason. Meanwhile, the Sox had a perfectly healthy season I guess, only missing time from Varitek, Nixon, Wells, Clement, Foulke, Wakefield, Manny, Gonzalez, and Schilling.

I'm doubting the Sox break the bank next year. It makes no sense for them to suddenly break from their established pattern of making a concerted effort to hover at the luxury cap level. I'll bet they trim payroll by not resigning a few veterans, and end up getting one high-profile acquisition to keep the fans knowing they're doing their best to compete.

I honestly believe Theo is the best GM in baseball and Francona is quite possibly the best manager. Torre and Cashman are both strong as well, but given an equal payroll I'm pretty sure the Red Sox end up stronger. They know well enough that Bernie Williams would cost them even if he played for free. Theo understands that "manufacturing" runs in the first three innings is stupid, and Francona is at least smart (or subservient) enough to listen to Theo in this regard. Francona is also incredible at dealing with difficult personalities. To be fair, Torre is good at that too, but I think the Yankees lack the same statistical understanding of the game that the Sox have.

Ultimately, I'll go back to my original point: Torre and Cashman are likely receiving more praise than they deserve for the success of the Yankees this season. With a $200 million payroll (or what - $175, excluding Matsui and Sheffield) anything less than 105-110 wins should be considered an embarassment.

So, just out of curiosity:
How is it that the best GM in baseball and the best manager in baseball together managed to have the highest payroll in baseball to miss the playoffs altogether?

Jamie,
I think you misunderstand the previous post - The Yankees have the highest payroll in Basball, not the Red Sox. And it's not even close.

BTW, Here's the list:
1. Yankees - 194 Million (not including Abreu and Lidle)
2. Boston - 120
3. Anaheim - 104
4. Whitesox - 103
5 Mets - 101
6. Dodgers - 100
7. Cubs - 94
8. Hou - 93 (not including Clemens, which would leapfrog the astros into 3rd)
9. Atlanta - 90
10. SF - 90
Other Contenders:
Cards -11th -89 million
Phils -12th - 88 (this includes Abreu and Lidle)
Detroit - 14th - 83 million
Padres - 17th - 70 million
Minnesota - 19th - 64m
Oakland - 21st- 62 million

The Yankees have spent three and a third times more than Oakland has for 4 extra wins.

david, I think what Jamie is trying to say is that the Red Sox have the highest payroll of the teams that are missing the playoffs.

Oh, I see. Sorry, it's written sort of confusingly. Interesting that 8 of the top 10 teams in payroll are in danger of missing the postseason. It might just make the argument against the high spending ways of the Yanks moot. Except that their advantage is just SO huge... Still, an interesting thing to ponder; It would be an interesting experiment to see how adept Cashman and Torre are next season, and save Steinbrenner some money, by slashing the payroll by, say, 100 million dollars and see if the Yanks can still contend. (They would still have the 6th highest payroll in baseball) If Cashman and Torre are as good as I think they are, I think they could do it. But I bet it doesn't happen.

Probably nobody's reading this anymore, but...

Right, thank you Jen; the expression "the highest payroll in baseball to miss the playoffs altogether" is a noun phrase, and it was the object of "have". (I don't think there's any other way to parse my sentence.)

The advantage the Yankees have over other clubs is certainly huge. The advantage the Red Sox have over every other team besides the Yanks is also huge. Yet the Red Sox have missed the play-offs. This speaks very badly indeed for their managerial team.

Here's the part of MoneyBall I always thought was silly: why on earth would anyone expect each marginal win to cost the same amount? That's a completely irrational expectation. Your 61st win will be cheap to buy; the 81st will cost much more; the 101st is going to cost you a fortune.

"The advantage the Yankees have over other clubs is certainly huge. The advantage the Red Sox have over every other team besides the Yanks is also huge. Yet the Red Sox have missed the play-offs. This speaks very badly indeed for their managerial team."

The advantage the Yanks have over the sox is 80 million dollars. The advantage the Sox have over the next highest payrolled team is 16 million dollars. Huge, but not in the same ballpark as the advantage the Yanks have.

Well, it's $74 mil., not $80 mil. But fine, it's bigger than the BoSox' advantage.
Nonetheless the Red Sox have a very, very large advantage over every team but the Yankees, financially speaking, yet they are going to miss the playoffs by a long, long way. So it's hard for me to understand heaping praise on the managerial team.

"Well, it's $74 mil., not $80 mil. But fine, it's bigger than the BoSox' advantage.
Nonetheless the Red Sox have a very, very large advantage over every team but the Yankees, financially speaking, yet they are going to miss the playoffs by a long, long way. So it's hard for me to understand heaping praise on the managerial team."

It's actually 80 million dollars when you add in Abreu and Lidle's salaries - the above figures are season-opening payroll. The Yanks are paying approx. 8 million this year for those two guys.
And I don't defend Boston's management, nor praise them, at all. They didn't use their payroll effectively. Neither, apparently, have the cubs, Giants, Astros or any other team that's missing the playoffs that is also in the top ten in payroll.
But to argue that every other team has a "high" payroll is to ignore that the Yankees payroll is absurdly high - more than 50% higher than the 2nd place team's. That hides a lot of bad management decisions. Look at it this way - the Yankees could cut their payroll by 100 million dollars next season - and still be sixth in the league in payroll. If Boston cut 100 million from their payroll next season, they would be next to last, ahead of only the Marlins. These are significant differences we're talking about here.