Baseball Musings: Dodgers Thoughts on Dodgers Tradition

October 31, 2005

Dodgers Thoughts on Dodgers Tradition

Jon Weisman spells out quite nicely what traditions the Dodgers hold dear:

The record shows that DePodesta did not put the Dodgers in the playoffs again in 2005. Shocking, I know. Do you know what the Dodgers' record for consecutive postseason appearances is in their 121-year history? Two. It is a Dodger tradition, like it or not, to have disappointment and then regroup.
Smith, perhaps the Dodgers' highest-profile outside acquisition from the 1970s, missed 301 games in his six seasons with the team. Kirk Gibson, perhaps the Dodgers' highest-profile acquisition from the 1980s, played 71 games the season after his great home run - one fewer than J.D. Drew - and was soon unceremoniously dumped. It is a Dodger tradition, like it or not, for key players to get hurt and stay hurt.

The Dodgers traditionally win when they rely on their farm system and the farm system produces. To be sure, the farm system doesn't always produce. But in their entire history in Los Angeles, the team has made only one playoff appearance with fewer than five home-grown players in the starting lineup. That team was the hallowed 2004 team at whose breakup everyone is so aghast.

DePodesta bet his future on the Dodger Way, transforming the team into one that was going to rely on the farm system, supported by a few outside acquisitions. He had not finished the job - a 71-91 record indicates that - but he was doing exactly what people have been asking for since 1988. He was doing exactly what the Dodgers have been doing almost forever.

I've been reading the many comments left about the firing on this blog, trying to decide how I feel about DePodesta's departure. The main argument in favor of the firing is that Paul didn't build on last season's success; when he had a team to put together, it ended up with a poor record.

His defenders site that he didn't have enough time. He was building toward a sustainable model that would put the Dodgers in contention for a number of years.

I can't say there were many moves I didn't like. Signing Lowe didn't sit well with me at first, but the more I read the reasons for the contract, the more I could accept it. Kent isn't as bad a defensive second baseman as some would suggest. Choi is a good hitter, if someone would let him play every day.

What tips me against the firing, however, is that DePodesta was hired for five years. He was trying to win today, but my guess is he was more interested in winning tomorrow. Sometimes, you do need to take a step back. Paul wasn't going to make rash moves due to injuries; that wasn't the plan. He was willing to eat this season to be better in the future. He's not going to get the chance, and that's a shame.

If the Dodgers hire Gillick, I expect Pat to do very well. While Gillick paints himself as the anti-Moneyball GM, he's not. Gillick does with his head what DePodesta does with a computer. Look at the teams he created in Toronto and Seattle. His offenses were built around players with great OBAs. He knew when to replace high priced stars with cheaper ones who also had talent. His trade of Fernandez and McGriff for Alomar and Carter made the team younger and better, especially as he was able to move Olerud into the first base slot. It was a great Moneyball deal.

Gillick will win with the foundation laid by Evans and DePodesta, and we'll hear no end of how much better his style does.

Posted by David Pinto at 06:53 PM | Management | TrackBack (1)

Comments

That's one thing I'll definitely say in DePo's defense--- that he strengthened the farm system. Although I remember Joe Thurston and Edwin Jackson being highly touted a couple of years ago, and they've never panned out. A couple of fellows who came up this year looked promising, but when you see wizards like Zach Duke and Jeff Francouer come up for other teams, it's hard not to get jealous.

Posted by: Adam Villani at October 31, 2005 07:29 PM

His firing is ridiculous. I believe that it's just another example of owners claiming to go in one direction, and then changing their mind half way through. If you're going to put your team in the hands of an ultra-smart statistician such as DePodesta, then go with it, but he didn't make any moves that were too too bad. It's unfortunate that McCourt couldn't see that winning takes time. A winning organizational plan takes more than two years. DePodesta was still working off of what Evans gave him, they never even gave the man the chance to make his long-term deals pan out. That's a shame.

Posted by: Steve Visconti at October 31, 2005 07:37 PM

I agree with Steve - DePo never had a chance to do what he was hired to do. I think its because of McCourt.
It seems that McCourt comes from the Jerry Jones/George Steinbrenner School Of Sports Ownership, which teaches that the Owner, in all of his ultimate power, must make all the decisions, General Manager be damned. If you hire a guy to do a job (for 5 years), then let him do the job.
McCourt is an idiot.
But, all that being said, as a lifelong Padre fan, my heart isn't exactly broken.

Posted by: mike at October 31, 2005 08:04 PM

I'm a diehard Mets fan, and this has Fred Wilpon written all over it.

Posted by: Steve Visconti at October 31, 2005 08:19 PM

I estatic that the Dodger front office under the foolhardy ownership of tightwad McCourt is floundering. While the Dodgers have some talent they have let better talent leave. Names too numerous come to mind , Konerko, Deluca, etc.
As a lifelong Giants fan I love Blue implosions!

Posted by: Richard Jasso at October 31, 2005 08:24 PM

I'm estatic that the Dodger front office under the foolhardy ownership of tightwad McCourt is floundering. While the Dodgers have some talent they have let better talent leave. Names too numerous come to mind , Konerko, Deluca, etc.
As a lifelong Giants fan I love Blue implosions!

Posted by: Richard Jasso at October 31, 2005 08:24 PM

you guys keep talking about his moves.

the move he NEEDED to make that he didn't was to right quick learn how to be friends with a VERY hostile media from the get go.

and THAT'S what he got fired for, not derek lowe or paul loduca

Posted by: lisa gray at October 31, 2005 08:47 PM

Couple of things:

(a) When discussing DePo's good moves and bad moves, he should have traded Edwin Jackson when the guy's stock was high. If I recall correctly, he was offered good players, but Jackson was deemed untouchable. Who knows if an extra player or two would have made a difference in the '04 postseason.

(b) Gillick is anti-Moneyball, because even years ago, smart baseball people know the value of OBP and SLG, but I think what made him successful was the concept that you don't need a superstar to win. If you assemble very good players at all positions, you can win. The Mariners were solid in 2001, without A-Rod, Griffey, and RJ.

Posted by: Yankee Despiser at November 1, 2005 08:39 AM

I heard on ESPN that the McCourts are trying to make themselves the brand name, with "Dodgers" as the product; as opposed to Dodgers as the brand name with baseball as the product. I wasn't listening too closely, but if this is so, then the Dodgers are in deep trouble.

Posted by: rbj at November 1, 2005 09:31 AM

Yeah, that thing about the McCourts being the brand name makes no sense at all. Who on earth goes to a ballgame to watch the owner?

Posted by: Adam Villani at November 1, 2005 12:57 PM

Adam,
you mean besides the Yankees?

I'm a Yankees fan, and while George does bluster a lot to get the back page of the local rags, he does recognize that the product is winning baseball, and the brand name is Yankees.

Posted by: rbj at November 1, 2005 01:15 PM

Said Weisman: "Do you know what the Dodgers' record for consecutive postseason appearances is in their 121-year history? Two. It is a Dodger tradition, like it or not, to have disappointment and then regroup."

Say I: The Dodgers have gone to back-to-back postseasons four times, in fact: the 1952-53, 1955-56, 1965-66, and 1977-78 World Series. They won two of those Series (including one in Brooklyn).

And, for the record, I think DePodesta got the shiv not so much because of stuff like the Paul Lo Duca deal (I applauded it at the time and I still defend it: Lo Duca was a clubhouse leader but he was an on-the-field fadeaway in the second half for his entire career---you can have 25 brotherly love guys in the clubhouse, but so did the 1962 Mets) but because he made the mistake Theo Epstein didn't make. (Well, the second mistake: the first was working for McSorda LaCourt in the first place.) Moneyball with the human element factored in with the statistical primacy equaled the 2004 Red Sox; Moneyball without the human element factored in equaled the 2005 Dodgers. (And, allowing for the Dodgers' injury quotient, it only went from critical to nuclear when someone convinced DePodesta that Jeff Kent could come aboard with excellent stats and the personality of a mongoose to Milton Bradley's cobra . . . )

---Jeff

Posted by: Jeff at November 1, 2005 11:48 PM

That Jasso guys comments wheren't far from home. Gotcha Rich

Posted by: Jens at July 18, 2006 10:27 AM

Post a comment

Baseball Info Solutions The publisher of the Bill James Handbook and a great source of stats.

ESPN.com's baseball page.

STATS, Inc. You'll find great baseball books and fantasy games here.

Baseball Direct Scoreboard This is powered by STATS, Inc. Good box scores, and good situational stats.

Baseball Reference.com It's like having Total Baseball and the Big Mac online!

Baseball Trade Rumors Thoughts on wheeling and dealing.

Baseball Prospectus.com Wonderful commentary and analysis.

Baseball Primer Baseball for the Thinking Fan.

The Hardball Times Baseball. Insight. Daily.

Minor League Spilts Database Up-to-date minor league statistics, broken down by situation.

Inside The Book A blog by the authors of The Book.

Baseboogle A search engine for baseball research sites.

Win Shares From Major League Baseball Graphs.

The Transaction Guy A baseball transactions blog.

Japan Baseball Daily An English language site for Japanese baseball news and stats.

Doug's Business of Baseball Weblog A blog with a focus on the economics of the game.

Why I Like Baseball A Yankee fan writes about her favorite team.

Skilton's Baseball Links Links to numerous baseball sources.

Dan Lewis A blog about all sports.

Birds in the Belfry A site about the Orioles. Articles and research.

Only Baseball Matters A baseball blog by a John J. Perricone.

Jocksalot Lots of sports links.

Al's Ramblings A Brewer's blog.

Futility Infielder Jay Jaffe's baseball site. More than just a blog.

Mike's Baseball Rants Mike Carminati's baseball blog.

Aaron's Baseball Blog A general interest baseball blog.

Boy of Summer Travis Nelson on baseball.

Baseball Crank Dan McLaughlin's blog on baseball, the war and politics.

Bambino's Curse Edward Cossette's blog about the Red Sox.

Oakland Athletics Blog David Levens writes about the A's.

Ducksnorts Articles and Blog by Geoff.

Boston Sports Media Bruce Allen's roundup of the Boston Sports Media.

The Diamond Angle An online baseball magazine.

The Cub Reporter A Chicago Cubs blog.

Bronx Banter A baseball blog by Al Belth.

At Home Plate Articles by Jonathan Leshanski.

Dodger Thoughts Jon Weisman on the Dodgers.

The Clark & Addison Chronicle A Chicago Cubs web log.

Baseball Writing Joe Zibell's essays on baseball.

The Eddie Kranepool Society A Mets blog.

Mariners Weblog The Seattle Post-Intelligencer's weblog written by Shannon Fears

PortlandSoxFan.com A Red Sox blog from Portland, CT.

The Detroit Tigers Weblog Two Tigers fans and their take on the Motor City team.

A Rookie's Life The blog of Cleveland Indians' rookie Jody Gerut.

The Baseball Desert An Englishman living in France writes about the American game.

ChiSox Daily Mike Lubuda writes about the White Sox.

Shallow Center A blog mostly about the Phillies.

The House that Dewey Built Jeff Kuhn writes about the Red Sox.

SethSpeaks.net A blog by a Twins fan.

Frank's Field of Dreams News about Asian players in the United States.

Jay's Giants Blog William Jay blogging about the Giants.

Baseball Savant Cutting edge baseball news and analysis updated everyday from all aspects of the greatest show on dirt!

Athletics Nation Blogging about the A's.

Red Reporter JD Arney writes about the Reds.

Dominican Players Raul Tavares writes about players from his home country.

The Pearly Gates An Anaheim Angels Blog.

Red Sox Haven Randy Booth on baseball.

Tigers Weblog The Detroit News weblog on the Tigers, written by Tom Gage.

Management by Baseball Jeff Angus writes on how business can learn from baseball.

The View From the Bleachers A Chicago Cubs blog.

Cubs Now! Brian Hipp on the Cubs.

Honest Wagner A Pittsburgh Pirates weblog.

All-Baseball.com A collection of excellent baseball weblogs.

Soxaholix A comic strip blog about the Red Sox.

Most Valuable Network Blogging all 30 teams.

Baseball, Etcetera Andrew Godfrey's baseball blog.

Most Valuable Network, Astros Lisa Gray and others write about the Astros.

fenwayfanatics.com A Boston Red Sox blog.

Balls, Sticks & Stuff A sports blog with an emphasis on baseball.

Phillies Nation Brian Michael writes about the Phillies.

Batgirl Less stats, more sass.

Sabernomics Economic thinking about baseball.

Fire Brand of the American League A blog about the Red Sox.

Ivy Chat Chicago Cubs and other rants.

Baseball Evolution A group website writing about baseball.

The Cubdom.com Byron Clarke blogs about the Cubs.

Red Sox Stats Sabermetric numbers for the Red Sox system.

DRays Bay A blog devoted to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

Baseball Analysts Rich Lederer and Bryan Smith combine their baseball expertise into a single site.

Over the Monster A Red Sox blog by Randy Booth.

Viva el Birdos Ghosts of the St. Louis Cardinals past, present, and future.

Black Sox Blog A look at the current and historical teams of the South Side of Chicago.

Redleg Nation A group blog about the Cincinnati Reds.

Barry's Journal Barry Bonds' web log.

Hardball Dollars Keeping track of major league salaries.

Clem's Baseball and it's "Green Cathedrals" The resource for baseball stadiums on the web.

The Baseball Zealot Looking at the game of baseball from all sides of the spectrum .

Was Watching Laconic commentary from a Yankeeland zealot.

Bleed Cubbie Blue A Chicago Cubs blog.

Beaneball A's baseball from the heart of New York City.

The Writers A collection of sports writers express their opinions.

Yard Work What the Baseball Tonight crew would write if it could.

United States of Baseball Peter Handrinos' baseball columns.

Beer Leaguer Alternative veiwpoints on the Philadelphia Phillies.

Red Sox Connection Links to everything Red Sox.

Baseball Pilgrimages Stories of visits to baseball parks.

Fangraphs Multi-year charts of player stats.

Roto Authority Unique fantasy baseball information.

Yanksfan vs. Soxfan A Yankees fan and a Red Sox fan battle it out in the blogosphere.

Sawxblog.com A Red Sox fan writes about the home town team.

Oriole Magic An MVN blog about the Orioles.

The Baltimore Chop Joseph Jackson on the Orioles.

Lookout Landing A Seattle Mariners blog.

Sons of Bart Brush A blog about the Harvard baseball team.

Base Blogging A resource for sports and baseball bloggers.

Three True Outcomes A group blog by on major league baseball.

Cardinals Diaspora A blog for Cardinals fans living away from St. Louis.

Where Have You Gone, Andy Van Slyke? A Pittsburgh fan chronicles life in the Grand Canyon.

Brew Crew Ball A blog about the Milwaukee Brewers.

Getting Paid to Watch Posts by a former trainer for the NY Mets.

The Gas House Gang An historical St. Louis Cardinals Blog.

6-4-2 An Angels/Dodgers double play blog.

El Guapo's Ghost Rambles on about the Red Sox Baseball and the Red Sox.

Baseball Etc

Tiger Tales A Detroit Tigers web log.

The Baseball Card Blog A blog about baseball cards.

Sox1Fan A Red Sox blog.

Out of Left Field Another Red Sox blog.

New York Yankees Update A Yankees blog with lots of photos.

Liberty Ball A current and historical Phillies blog.

Crawfish Boxes A Houston Astros blog.

MLB Rumors Clearinghouse News from around the majors.

Roar From 34 A group blog about the Orioles.

Blogging Baseball All-time baseball highlights and real-time commentary.

Rubber Arm A group blog about major league baseball.

Fenway Nation More news about the Red Sox.

Rays of Light A Devil Rays blog.

Fantasy Baseball Chronicle Information for fantasy players.

American Legends A sports blog.

Duffy's Cliff An interactive Red Sox site, featuring a lexicon of the Red Sox.

Oriole Post - The World of Baseball and Beyond An Orioles blog.

DRays Bay A Devil Rays blog.

Mets Heads A blog about the New York Mets.

The Soul of Baseball Joe Posnanski promotes his book on Buck O'Neil and blogs about baseball.

My Baseball Bias A blog about East Coast baseball.

Sports Business Radio Articles and talk about the business of sports.

The Game of Baseball A blog about Major League Baseball.

Baseball Hot Corner Opinionated observations for the thinking fan.

FantasyDope.com Fantasy baseball news.

Peter's Red Sox Forever A Red Sox blog.

Sox Nest Commentary on the Red Sox.

The Big Oz A Florida Marlins blog.

Baseball Reflections Where old school baseball meets sabermetrics.

The Sommer Frieze A Yankees blog.

Fenway Nation A Red Sox fan site.

In-Between Hops A Milwaukee Brewers blog.

Right Field Bleachers Another Milwaukee Brewers blog.

On Baseball and the Reds Another Cincinnati Reds blog.

Crooked Pitch A fantasy baseball blog.

Bless You Boys A Detroit Tigers blog.

Cubs f/x Pitch f/x and the Chicago Cubs.

The Hot Corner

Eephus Pitch Tossing pure junk about New York baseball since 2006.

It Is High, It Is Far, It Is Caught A tribute to John Sterling.

Baseball GB Baseball from a British perspective.

Nick and Nick's Twins Blog A couple of Nicks write on the Twins.

SkyKing162 Baseball with a hint of lime.

Center Field A Red Sox blog.

Empyreal Environs Writing about the Red Sox.

Trophy League Planet Aggregating the baseball blogosphere.

Cardinals Best News Links Aggregating St. Louis Cardinals news.

Zell's Pinstripe Blog A Yankees Blog.

HSAC Blog Official Musings of the Harvard College Sports Analysis Collective.

The Baseball Fix A general baseball blog.

MLB Roundup A baseball video blog.

Fantasy Dope Fantasy Baseball News.

The Cubs Brickyard Hilarious fake news.

Spitting Seeds A blog about Major League baseball.

Infield Chatter A blog covering all aspects of baseball.

The Bronx View A blog and podcast about the Yankees.

Jorge Says No A blog about the Yankees.

Ivy League to MLB Shawn Haviland blogs about his efforts to rise through the Oakland Athletics system.

This Purist Bleeds Pinstripes Blog of a girl who somehow has found a way to balance being a baseball purist with being a New York Yankees fan.

Baseball from Wrigley A Chicago Cubs blog.

Sliding into Home A Yankees blog.

Boras Blog Blogging about Scott Boras.

Injury Tool Fantasy Pitch F/X offers complete information on injuries.

Instapundit Politics and the law. This site inspired me to start blogging.

Rookie Cards Baseball Card grading.

Wild Treasure Treasure hunts through the blogosphere.

San Diego Ticket Finder San Diego Ticket Information.

Prize Sports.net Baseball Collectibles.

Fantasy Sports R Us The #1 Fantasy Baseball Leagues site on the web.

RotoRank - Fantasy Baseball Draft Guides Customized For Any Fantasy Baseball League.