Lying to congress is not a good idea.

Wow. This will be interesting to watch. IIRC, this is the first "big" name to be suspended for violating the policy...

Do we really think Raffy is that dumb?

Well, either he is, or he's got some serious 'splainin' to do. Maybe Viagra is on the banned list.

Also, this can't be good for his maybe-maybe not HOF chances.

If you talk to sports writers about the general intelligence of athletes, they'll rate baseball players at the bottom. So Phil, the answer to your question could very well be yes.

He's the only guy that most fans have heard of. There have been very few suspensions, and none of the players involved were well-known. Just what Baltimore needs right now, as they slide out of the division and wild card races.

We're relying on sportswriters to judge intelligence? Have you seen Around the Horn?

Halfway seriously, I wonder which sports league would rank dead last on a standardized intelligence test. I don't think it would be MLB, but that's pure speculation.

I'm with Casey on this one. Hard to believe that NFL players are more intelligent than MLB players based on what I've read about players in both sports.

That being said, I wonder what banned substance Raffy took. And sadly, Canseco's book just gained a little more credibility.

I can't believe that baseball players would rank on the bottom. All you have to do is listen to the interviews and it is not hard to see that the NBA and NFL certainly seems to be of lesser intelligence than MLB players.

Not that it necessarily has anything to do with intelligence, but most NBA and NFL players went to college for a few years. Not that they took any difficult classes, but well, it's something.

The only thing I could think of in Raffy's defense is that he used a suplement that's legal in some Latin American country, but shows up as a banned substance here. Without the league saying what it is, I don't know how true that is. Raffy's really got to explain what happened.
He'll still get into the Hall, but it'll be a few years.

Don't forget that these players have agents as well--if Palmeiro was stupid enough to take steroids, then his agent was just as stupid for not reminding him every day "Whatever you do, don't screw up all the good will that's been sent your way... and oh by the way, don't commit perjury in front of Congress either."

As for other matters, who cares which league has the lowest intelligence rating? I'm sure a majority of major leaguers never graduated college, and many of them never even went to college (not that college attendance is an accurate measure of intelligence anyway).

The whole discussion is utterly absurd anyway. How on earth can anyone claim to judge another's intelligence by what he says in sound bites on television and in newspapers?

Intelligence and scientific ignorance and sound judgement are not mutually exclusive. However, I am pretty sure that NFL players, if not "smarter," are, at the least, better at memorization than MLB and NBA players. Football at the highest levels weigh heavily on strategy and formations, while the latter two are essentially one-on-one confrontations.

Did those character stories have something to do with him sleeping with a newly minted hall of famer's wife?

Really, it would be fun to administer a standardized intelligence test (in the appropriate languages) to everybody in various sports leagues and total up the results.

This will never happen, of course, for all the reasons that people denounce IQ tests in the first place, plus plenty of special reasons for sports. But relying on sportswriters, of all people, to make judgments of other people's intelligence is a pretty hilarious idea.

Back to Palmeiro: I think Juan Rincon made a similar statement that he didn't intentionally take any banned substance. Rincon was such a low-profile player that nobody notcied...except David Ortiz, who grumbled that the testing program was some kind of anti-Hispanic conspiracy.

My own opinion is that players are so used to lying to their wives and girlfriends that anything they say cannot be trusted.

It's really a shame that MLB won't disclose the substance...

Let's see, I'm trying hard to tie together the two subjects in this thread...

Lance Armstrong has been accused of doping, though he's never flunked a test. He's also struck me as one of the most intelligent athletes, always well-spoken and alert. I have a feeling he would do very well on any standardized test.

IIRC, a while back Bill James did a "study" of which players had the most baseball-related intelligence. I'm using the quotes because it was pretty obvious James wasn't entirely serious about the results. I think he picked Ozzie Smith as the player with the best baseball smarts.

Somebody like Tom Glavine also strikes me as pretty quick. Not just because he speaks well, but also because he catches onto how the ump calls the outside corner real fast. He's built a career on that ability.

Reading Raffy's statement, I can only wonder about the confidentiality clause in the CBA, if he can't disclose the substance, or what he took. Unless he got caught dead to rights, and this is just a smoke screen.

I look at Miguel Tejada's face on tv, and I feel badly for
him and the rest of the team.

It is not about intelligence. It is about money. Look how lousy Sammy Sosa is all of a sudden. Does anyone wonder why? The hulk from St. Louis was the same way. If he was still playing under the new rules, he might hit 30 home runs a season.

No surprise, but the Orioles radio announcers are talking up a storm about Palmeiro. I guess it beats commenting on what looks like another loss. The Birds are molting 3-1 in the seventh. At least the ump got rid of Buehrle for them. He hit Surhoff in the sixth and the ump tossed him.

The club will have a press conference on Palmeiro after the game.

Re: Os game

I think the Buerhle ejection really sums up the White Sox this year. He is 1 out from extending his 6 IP streak, yet he stands up for his catcher (after he was beaned). Team over individual.

What I can't wait for is the first player to actually admit to having used steroids when he gets caught. Giambi came the closest, though he was never caught by the league and suspended for it. It's always "an accident," or something like that. Though I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the people who are crummy enough as human beings to cheat at their job are also the ones without the sense of responsibility to actually admit their mistakes.

Look it's not about intelligence, it's all about the Benjamins. Most of the players are latin I think you have to give them a little credit considering their background, alot of latin ball players that grew up in their country did not have the privilage that we have here in the States. I can think of two guys that seem to be real intelligent when they talk to the media. Mike Mussina graduate of Stanford, Alex Rodriguez graduate of Miami.

Let's give the man credit for telling the truth. Many players took supplments, sold over the counter, that contained elemental steroid content. Until the government regulates supplements like drugs this will happen. In addition everyone manages to forgive Babe Ruth drinking illegally and hanging out with known gambloers during the depression. They forgave Ty Cobb for his violent behavior and obvious bigotry. and lest we forget Steve Howe who was "forgiven" over six times for cocaine abuse and sale. Is this the same league that let Michael Jordan play even after the photo of the check given to a known bookie.

Bad Raffy!!!! Very Bad!!!!
Well I am really not surprised, I just hope he out of Baseball for longer then 10 Games as I believe he committed perjury and that Bad!!!!

Sorry Raffy, you got caught and you lied. Maybe the Viagra isn't the only thing keeping you BAT strong!!

11. payl Says:
August 1st, 2005 at 12:27 pm

Athletes using performance enhancing drugs? Next your gonna tell me that the only reason why oil is 60 bucks a barrel is because there’s an oilman in the white house!
Lighten up. Baseball, like all major sports, is first and foremost,entertainment. We tacitly accept the John Belushis and Jimi Hendrixes of entertainment, yet we act all shocked and outraged when they pay for their choices with their lives. We expect our heroes to be out on the edge.
Another item. Leo Durocher is, I believe, in the baseball hall of fame as he should be. I understand in the effort to get his Giants in the world series he posted a lookout in the clubhouse in center field in the Polo Grounds to steal signs and telephone them to the dugout. Cheating? Certainly. Did it put fannies in the seats? you bet. When all’s said and done it is about the business of entertainment. Expecting a major star to fess up for the sins of an entire system was as unfair in Giambi’s case a sit is now. Instead of tearing down every last thing let’s try and have some fun and let the players discover what Giambi has figured out: it aint about nothing but talent.

If the facts show that Palmeira truly did take steriods & I believe he did, then he lied to Congress and should go to jail (remember Martha Stewart). I watched the hearings from beginning to end & the only one on the panel that didn't lie, I believe, was Jose. Interesting to note that all the big hitters are not doing as well anymore since this issue was taken to Congress.

It's true that offense is down substantially since 2000, but almost all of that decline took place in 2001 and 2002, long before MLB started testing for steroids and revealing players' names.

This year overall offensive levels are about the same as in 2002. SLG is actually up a few points from 2002.

Of course, everybody's going to say the offensive decline since 2000 is all about steroid testing, because nobody wants to look naive. My guess is that testing's had an effect on a few hitters. But I think we're mostly seeing the results of a bigger strike zone and more pitcher-friendly ballparks.

Besides Sosa, who are the big hitters having poor years?

BTW, the Orioles just lost 6-3. Chicago now has a ridiculous 15-game lead in the AL Central.

As for it being a matter of money, not intelligence...I'm not even sure what that means. I think we're just getting the two separate ideas in this thread mixed up. Sure, baseball players are trying to make as much money as they can, like most of the rest of us.

Is it smart to use steroids now that testing's in place? No. But it also hurts a player's earning power - it definitely will cost Palmeiro some change for the suspension alone.

Anyway, baseball looks more serious about steroids now that somebody big got suspended. The issue had been fading away, but now those intelligent sportswriters on Around the Horn can yell about it again.

Actually, McGwire didn't lie, either --- because he kept his mouth shut. Taking steroids is one thing, and it's been rehashed in many places over the past few years. But the new twist here is lying to Congress. That's perjury. Probably not convictably so, given the evidence, but either way, that's a bad, bad thing.

if Palmeiro thinks we actually believe he never did a controlled substance without his knowledge, then maybe Bill Clinton really didn't "have sex with that woman".

I can't see a pejury conviction unless Canseco could back up his statements about Palmeiro taking steroids in the 1990s with some kind of objective evidence. Other eyewitnesses, test results (which are nonexistent, best as I know), *something* more than Canseco's word and a test result in 2005.

I also can't see how Schilling, Thomas or Sosa could be nailed for lying because there seems to be no evidence against these guys at all...not even unsupported statements from Canseco.

So that's it, huh?...deny everything, serve your 10 game suspension then it's back to business as usual.

And baseball people wonder why Joe fan is tuning out what once was a great sport...

Joe Fan has bought nearly 50 million tickets to the sport so far this year. Baseball could set an all-time attendance record in 2005. The minors could also be headed for an attendance record, though suspensions in those leagues have been more common than in the majors.

The steroids issue had gone quieter than a defunct dormouse, because there were so few positive tests in the majors and no suspensions of any high-profile players before Palmeiro.

If anything, Palmeiro's suspension will make the sport look more serious about testing. I doubt this will affect Joe Fan's ticket purchases.

It’s been announced that Palmeiro used a banned substance, but have there been any indications as to what substance that might have been? I believe that pseudoephedrine is among the list of banned substances, and you can find that ingredient in many over the counter cough and cold remedies. I’m not trying to excuse Palmeiro if he cheated, but are some people jumping the gun here? Also, I should probably say that even though I’m not crazy about steroids in baseball, I’m not one of those who believe that players who take them are “violating the sanctity of the game”. Cheating has always been part of the game. Back in the early 80’s, there was a traveling exhibition of Babe Ruth memorabilia, and it was discovered that some of the bats were corked. Whitey Ford became the master of the scuff ball when his arm went, and Gaylord Perry was well known for doctoring the ball.

After the talk here about what substances are banned, this article cracked me up:

http://www.sportsgoons.com/volume3/Vol3_Iss16/baseball_bans_wheaties.htm

I doubt he did this. But this is the problem with any over the counter supplement. There is no government control. You could practically take a multi-vitamin and there could accidentally be a banned substance in it!

How in the world can a person who just denied using steriods to Congress not know what he' s taking? He honestly believes we're all idiots, including our Congress! I don't care for Jose Conseco, but always thought there was some truth behind his statements.

I believe MR.PALMEIRO, took steriods.and lied about it to CONGRESS.AND HE'S STILL DOING IT. I SAY JOSE CANSECO KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT,MR. MCGUIRE,RAFFE, WE'RE STARTING TO SEE THE DOMINO EFFECT,NEXT IS MR. SOSA ETC. JOSE,YOU AND GIAMBI ARE AT LEAST HONEST,ABOUT YOUR CORRUPTIONS.

Ralphie is my uncle, I see what he puts in his body. I have stayed the night over his house with my cousins many of times.He does not and will not use Steroids. Whatever turned up positive must have been in one of his supplements. And Frankly Im sick of people like you who have no inside knowledge writing about things you know nothing about.

Anyone know where there a list of banned substances on the web somewhere? I haven't had any luck finding one...

is this correct ? that the commish of B-ball secretly handed down the suspension early in the year ? and that it only has now come to light as the suspension was upheld after the appeal process. was this information known to all the parties when he testified before congress in march ? interesting to know when the commish made his initial ruling and if he tested positive before he testified ? wow !

The Boston Globe gives a partial list of banned substances:

Androstenedione (Andro, for short), norandrostenediol, Ephedra, human growth hormone, THG, designer steroids, diuretics, and masking agents...

Wikipedia has this to say about diuretics:

A diuretic is any drug that tends to increase the flow of urine from the body (diuresis)... Some common diuretics are caffeine, cranberry juice and alcohol.

So, for all we know, the Palmeiro suspension could be for ingesting Coke, Nyquil, beer, punch, or even tea!

"Did those character stories have something to do with him sleeping with a newly minted hall of famer's wife?"

Palmeiro slept with Peter Gammons's wife?

Poppy seeds test positive he could have eaten them and it does test positive. Just a thought.

Sir:
The outfit he lied to (the Congress) is the only group in the U.S. that lies constantly but cannot recognize a lie under any circumstances but is willing to punish liars who are not members of Congress. The other group that cannot lie--they do not have the imagination needed--but cannot recognize a lie is pro sports owners.

poppyjudge

Let's not pass judgment yet! It could be something very innocent that Rafael digested. Wait to hear from MLB says what substance was found in Raffy's system! Thanks from an Oriole fan!

money is the most important thing...if we fans stay away from baseball long enough, only then will something be done about this...to think that names like Mickey mantle and Roger Maris will someday be forgotten...and for what? So a few guys like Mark Mcguire and Barry Bonds can instead be remembered...what a shame.

Let's not confuse the talent of verbal expression with intelligence. There are many forms of "intelligence", and some of the brightest people around absolutely suck at expressing their thoughts. And we all know those people who can talk up a storm, but say absolutely nothing at all.

Hey if the athletes want to destroy thier future health let them, I myself do not believe steroids make them any better at the sport Unless it weightlifting

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 8, 2005
Media Contacts:Sara Conley or Megan Kortemeyer, PCI 312-558-1770
Gina Doyle, MBC, 312-396-0103

NATIONAL RADIO HALL OF FAME NAMES CLASS OF 2005

Comedy legends Abbott & Costello, sportscaster Marty Brennaman, ABC White House correspondent

Ann Compton, football commentator Myron Cope, and humorist Jean Shepherd to be inducted later this Fall

Chicago (August 8, 2005) – A group of six national and local radio celebrities representing politics, sports, humor and classic comedy will be inducted into the National Radio Hall of Fame during a nationally broadcast ceremony Saturday, November 5, 2005, National Radio Hall of Fame president Bruce DuMont announced today.

The inductees are:

The legendary comedy team of Abbott & Costello (the late Bud Abbott and the late Lou Costello)
Marty Brennaman, Cincinnati Reds broadcaster
Ann Compton, ABC News Radio White House correspondent
Myron Cope, Pittsburgh Steelers color commentator
The late Jean Shepherd, radio humorist

“The National Radio Hall of Fame Class of 2005 personifies radio’s unique ability to inform, engage, entertain, and delight generations of audiences over diverse programming formats,” said DuMont, who also is president of the Museum of Broadcast Communications in Chicago. “We’re pleased to welcome this year’s inductees. Each has made a significant contribution to the medium of radio, and their names will be enshrined for future generations to acknowledge, both in the new Museum of Broadcast Communications and online.”

The Museum of Broadcast Communications, home to the National Radio Hall of Fame, is in the midst of a major capital fundraising project to convert its building at State and Kinzie Streets to a new, state-of-the-art, 70,000 square-foot museum featuring working radio and television studios and other interactive exhibits and entertainment space showcasing broadcasting’s leading personalities. The new MBC will be the first public museum in the nation built to a Gold LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) standard. Construction is under way and the new museum is scheduled to open in late summer 2006.

Westwood One will produce and distribute nationally the special one-hour radio broadcast of the ceremony. The national broadcast will be heard on WOR/New York, WGN and WLS in Chicago and other major stations from coast-to-coast.

Inductees were selected through a national balloting process that included participation by radio executives, broadcast historians and members of the National Radio Hall of Fame. Ballots were tabulated and certified by the firm of Altschuler, Melvoin and Glasser LLP/American Express Tax and Business Services. Travel and promotional support is being provided by American Airlines and the Renaissance Chicago Hotel.

About the National Radio Hall of Fame

The National Radio Hall of Fame recognizes and showcases contemporary talent from today’s diverse programming formats as well as the pioneers who shaped the medium during its infancy. For more information, visit www.radiohof.org.

Tickets to the National Radio Hall of Fame November 5 black-tie induction dinner at the Renaissance Chicago Hotel may be purchased online at www.radiohof.org.

Note to Editors: Biographical information on the 2005 National Radio Hall of Fame inductees is attached. Photos of inductees are available by contacting Sara Conley, Public Communications Inc. at 312/558-1770 or

by e-mail: sconley@pcipr.com .