July 31, 2002
How Good is Torre?
Jordan Ellel writes:
In addition, I saw a piece briefly mentioned on the Sports Reporters about how Joe Torre spoke to Mondesi after he hit a home run against the D-Rays and took a little too long watching it (not to mention running with his bat still - reminds me of George Carlin's complaint about how unfair baseball is...you get this great weapon, and the first thing they make you do is throw it away). It just re-emphasizes something that has been apparent to most of the world for a long time - love the Yanks, or hate them - how great a manager is Joe Torre? I remember an article on Page 2 at the beginning of last season (or maybe this year) about how significant the little things Torre does that other managers don't make such a huge difference (not criticizing players in the media, being upfront with players about their roles, etc.) He's been perhaps the largest factor in the Yankees streak the past 6 years, and while he certainly gets credit, he doesn't get nearly enough talk for Manager of the Year and such. I know there is money and the Yanks are supposed to win, but he does so much to bring that team together and makes many ingenious moves that may be luck, but there are too many of them. Not to mention the fact that he's not only survived 6 years with Herr Steinbrenner as owner, but thrived is a testament unto itself.
I agree that Grady Little has done a tremendous job with Boston this year (although the changes up top helped too), but with Boston falling back in the standings, and the Yanks moving to the top, I hope Torre doesn't get overlooked again just because of the money. Sure the Yanks are supposed to win, but the money was there in the 80's and early 90's and plenty of managers couldn't win with it. Torre deserves to at least be talked about in those discussions and should be a shoo-in for the HoF when he hangs up his managerial spikes.
When Torre was still managing the Cardinals, Bill James wrote a piece on managers, in which he basically said that Torre was a good manager of people, but wasn't good at strategy. I still think that's true.
Two or three years ago I asked someone I met who seemed to like baseball who the best manager was. His answer was Joe Torre. I asked him if he thought that before Torre took over the Yankees. The reply was no. Did anyone think Torre was a great manager when he was with the Mets, Braves or Cardinals? Probably not, because he didn't win. Does Torre manage differently now? I don't think so. I think the difference comes from having a great team, and having bench coaches who are better at strategy than he is.
Torre is the exact opposite of Buck Showalter. Buck can position outfielders perfectly, construct a logical lineup, move people in and out of the game at just the right time, but he can't manage people. With the Yankees, Torre has had intelligent players with a lot of talent. He's very good at keeping them happy; he's very good at keeping Steinbrenner at a distance; he's great with the media. He's just what the Yankees need. But he needs Zimmer sitting there on the bench, or someone like that, making sure his game strategy doesn't get out of line. (I think that would be the perfect job for Buck Showalter, being the bench coach for a great people manager.)
So yes, every year for the last 7 Torre has deserved consideration for manager of the year. Hall of Fame? If he can stay with the Yankees for five more years, he'll be every bit as good as Casey or McCarthy and he'll go in easily. But it's important to realize what makes Torre a good manager, and what his weaknesses are.
Posted by David Pinto at
10:25 PM
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